Repercussions of closing ESA claim in favour of Pension Credits.

murrayfan_2

Hi

I'm new here and have searched a bit but can't find the answer I need, sorry if I'm repeating though

My husband is nearly 62 and was, til recently, on long-term Incapacity Benefit, and has also been receiving Pension Credits since last summer. He's been assessed (on paper only) for ESA and put in the work related group, which has upset me :mad:. He has severe Arthritis of his major joints which has been getting worse for the last 5 years to the point where I had to stop work to care for him. He also has a bad tremor and severe Depression.

I rang the Pension Credits team and asked if we could simply stop my husband's claim to ESA and have the money made up by the pension credits. They said yes, and advised we do it. However, my husband was suspicious that this was too simple. I then rang the Job Centre Plus for advice and they strongly advised against doing this . They claimed he would have to state that he was no longer unfit for work in order to stop his ESA claim, and "if Pension Credits is ever abolished he'll be in a difficult position" :eek:.

So what I really, deperately need to know, is who is right. What are the legal or other implications of stopping his ESA claim?. Will this impact on his DLA?. Will he be considered 'fit for work' in other scenarios?. Will Pension Credits likely be abolished?. I'm so confused, and only have a month if I want to appeal against the ESA decision to stick my husband in the work related group.

My husband can't even manage steps, the council moved us into a sheltered bunagalow with alarm system. He walks with 2 crutches and can't walk on slopes or hills. He can't sit in 'normal' chairs. He takes painkillers at night because the pain wakes him. He's occasionally incontinent. He has 'substantial' needs according to a recent Adult Services report, and as I say, is 62 and already in receipt of Pension Credit. The extra worry is just what we didn't need.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated .

pmlindyloo

As far as I am aware you cannot claim ESA and Pension credit.

See here:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/benefits_e/benefits_older_people_ew/benefits_for_people_over_sixty.htm

I think the 'mess up' has come about because you can claim IB up to 5 years after you reach State Pension age (the age you are entitled to Pensions Credit.)

I believe that the Pension Service is correct and he can end his claim for ESA.

pmlindyloo

Having just thought about this and not knowing your full circumstances (eg, Are you of State pension age? Are you working? Any savings?)
I think you might be wise to contact CAB and ask them to do a 'better off' calculation to see if you would be financially better off if OH was on ESA or PC.

Basically this will depend on whether he will receive contribution based ESA alone or with an income based 'top up'.

So, to sum up! Your OH can in theory claim either but needs to find out which is financially better. Of course the implications of not having to go through the rigmarole of the ESA process might outweigh the finacial situation! Best to get some advice.

epitome

He can keep his ESA C open (paying him WRAG for 365 days) while he also claims Pension Credit. His ESA C will be deducted from the PC. He cannot keep an ESA IR part of his claim open (if he currently claims for you on ESA IR). After the 365 days his ESA C will remain open at £0.00 for NI credits only as long as he continues to comply with the re-assessments...... and his PC amount will increase by the same amount that he was getting on ESA.
He can appeal for SG and should appeal ASAP

If PC is abolished and lets assume that the people already on it will be also stopped from getting it....

• If, in the meantime, he has closed his ESA completely, he would then return to ESA from scratch as an ESA IR claimant. (not entitled to ESA C) and would be subject to ESA IR rules only.
• If in the meantime, he has kept his ESA C open it would pay him for up to 365 days.
  *if he loses the appeal he would then have to continue on 100% ESA IR
  *if he wins the appeal he will have about £105 -£110 ESA C continuing until he reaches state pension age and would need to claim ESA IR to claim for you -if required.

Of course the government could withdraw ESA C Support Group cover from continuing, just as they could withdraw PC.

pmlindyloo

You could try putting the different scenarios into the benefits calculator on here:

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits_search.aspx

murrayfan_2

Thanks for the replies :A. He's on contribution based ESA as he worked for nearly 40 years before having to stop due to illness. The ESA just followed on from his long-term Incapacity Benefit so wasn't a new claim as such. I'm 20 years younger than him (so nearly 42) and get Carers Allowance for looking after my Autistic son, I also get Child Tax Credits.

We'd be exactly the same way off, financially, whether he was on the current combination of ESA and Pension Credits, or PC alone, as we have no income these days and only a small amount of savings (within the allowed amount). He's just very hesitant to stop the ESA claim if it means he has to declare himself 'recovered' and no longer in need of it, which is far from the case unfortunately. He's worried about the possibility of having to reclaim again in the future if he does this and P.C is scrapped with a change of government, say.

I agree that if P.C could be scrapped, so could ESA, just don't want to push my husband into doing the wrong thing here. I think he feels that morally he should be in the support group and still getting ESA - I say lets just do the less stressful thing please!. We'll visit C.A.B but I often find they don't know or can't add much, unfortunately .

epitome

He can (definately, I just checked) keep his ESA C open and claim PC so he risks nothing by claiming PC

He wouldn't have to declare himself recovered to stop his ESA. He just has to request that it is closed. However, it would not be wise to close his ESA C claim.

pmlindyloo

epitome wrote: »

He can (definately, I just checked) keep his ESA C open and claim PC so he risks nothing by claiming PC

He wouldn't have to declare himself recovered to stop his ESA. He just has to request that it is closed. However, it would not be wise to close his ESA C claim.

I know you are an expert in this but relating back to the link from Adviceguide that I gave where it says that you can't claim ESA and PC, is it referring solely to income based ESA?

Also could you elaborate as to why it is not wise to close his ESA C claim?

The OP says that financially it doesn't matter which one her OH is on.

murrayfan_2

He's already in receipt of Pension Credits, just less than if he we was not in receipt of ESA. So if he closes his ESA claim the PC will rise to cover the very same amount. I just really need to know if and why it wouldn't be wise to stop the ESA.

epitome

Yes it refers to ESA IR. I knew that ESA C is compatible with PC, but often we lack that extra 1% of certainty.....to get to 100%..... I followed your advice went to turn2us and did a check and it said it was allowed to have both.... that was good enough for me.

It would be unwise to close the ESA C as she is 20 years younger, should she ever start full time work again....or in her own scenario should PC ever be abolished.... (and he wins his appeal for Support Group) he would be losing out on about £105 pw ESA C. He will never get his ESA C back if he gives it up now. And would have to rely on ESA IR eligibility (and assessment rate for 3 months) Of course his entitlement to ESA would end when he reaches pension age anyway.

murrayfan_2

I see..........hmm, will have to give it some thought then, thankyou. I'd be amazed if PC was abolished but ya never know do you?. I'd also be amazed if I went back to full-time work within my husband's lifetime (he's disabled, obviously, and needs me as carer, our son is Autistic and needs me as carer, and I cannot legally drive due to uncontrolled Epilepsy, so going out to work even part-time proved very tricky last time I did it).
I think (but may be wrong) that I might get Income Support if we lost both ESA and PC. However, I do see the point of continuing on with the ESA, it's just a pain in the bum and a worry.