New build PC, Novatech and Paypal. Help!

dug123

Hi, I am sorry this will be a long story but I want to give as much info as possible.
For his birthday my son wanted a gaming PC so we looked around at what was on offer and decided that it would be much cheaper to build our own rather than buying a pre built one. I am no expert but I have built half a dozen PC's over the past ten years and probably fixed 50+ for my employers, friends, family and neighbours (everyone with a problem turns up on our doorstep!), I have dabbled with PC's since the mid 80's when I got my first one at work, I have bought PC's from ebay and auctions in bulk and then fixed them up and sold them on for a bit of extra cash. I am absolutely not an expert but I am comfortable around them. With the price dropping so quickly over the past few years I have really done nothing much apart from a couple of hard drive upgrades and sorted a few software problems out.
So we priced the bits up from both Novatech and ebuyer and money is tight so I bought from both companies to save a few quid. From ebuyer I bought a case, DVD drive, Hard Drive, SSD Drive, CPU and RAM. From Novatech I ordered the PSU (750W), Motherboard and Graphics card. At the time I had sold a few bits on ebay and had a few hundred quid in my Paypal account and decided to pay Novatech by Paypal which I did.
We received the delivery from Novatech on the 12th February (12 days ago).
We built the PC on Sunday 17th of February and everything went well. I loaded Windows 8 on it and everything ran and worked as it should.
Then a day later when he turned it on and there was no graphics output. The Motherboard has no on board built in Graphics so we could not test that. Then it started working again, then it stopped working (intermittent is the word I am looking for). So I pulled the graphics card out of his old PC and checked it was compatible and swapped it over. The PC worked again and then a day later it stopped. No graphics, No BIOS screen (I have updated the BIOS from the motherboard mahufacturers website). I then swapped the monitor and graphics lead and got the same intermittent problem.
I have tried both Graphics cards twice and both have the same problem so I am assuming that they cannot both be faulty, I have run memtest overnight with no problems, I have run a cpu stress test overnight with no problems.
I have found that if it starts up and there is no graphics output that if I turn it off at the mains and leave it for an hour it will start up 90% of the time and once it is running it runs until it is turned off. (It has never crashed)
My best guess is that the problem (intermittent) is either the motherboard or the power supply, I checked power usage for the system with an online power advisor and I was advised 400 to 450W was required and I bought a 750W just in case of future upgrades. (I bought Novatechs own brand which has good reviews).
I do not have a spare large PSU or another motherboard I can test the PC with
So yesterday morning (Saturday) I tried to phone Novatech to discuss this and found that they are not open until 9:00am Monday (fair enough) but I assume that they will ask me to return the PSU and motherboard for testing and possible replacement but this gives me a problem because the PC problem is intermittent and I can see this all taking time and leading to fall outs with Novatech, in the meantime my sons PC will be in bits and he will obviously not have a PC. I have reinstalled windows 7 (fresh install) on his old PC and this is going to be sold (when I can put the graphics card back in!) and I do not want to reinstall MS Office and his games etc back on to it and reactivate everything.
Having thought about this I would like to order a new PSU, Motherboard and Graphics card from ebuyer (different parts just in case there is a product fault) and just swap them over in his new PC and return everything to Novatech for a refund, but I do not want to be hit with a handling charge, I do not want Novatech to replace the parts I send back. Intermittent faults are the worst kind of faults and I could end up arguing with Novatech for a long time whilst my warrenty slips away.
So what about if I tell Novatech about the problems and at the same time make a SNAD claim on Paypal and just return it all (I have all boxes and packaging etc) by recorded delivery (parcel force?)
I have Googled Novatech problems and some people say they have good customer service and technical help and others say they suck, but I do not want this to drag on, even though I would admit that the fault, whatever it is, does not lie with Novatech.
Any advice on anything would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

Lifeforms

If you admit the fault doesn't lie with novatech, why are you wanting to "punish" them.
You don't even know what will be said first regarding fault reporting.
You take that risk when you buy components, and you should know this. By buying a PC off the shelf (customised or not) you hopefully get one that is tested working, although no guarantee, as most things either work, or fall apart very soon after.

If you are confident that you have put the machine together correctly, including all power connectors to the board, then you need to Return (most likely) the MB and wait for it to be tested and replaced. Yes it can take a while, but I doubt that you'll do yourself any favours by doing a paypal chargeback, without following the proper return mechanisms.


Just go through the proper returns and testing process, and wait for resolution.
If not, I hope novatech read your post, and very easily will match you to a customer and play hard ball with you.

dug123 wrote: »

Hi, I am sorry this will be a long story but I want to give as much info as possible.
For his birthday my son wanted a gaming PC so we looked around at what was on offer and decided that it would be much cheaper to build our own rather than buying a pre built one. I am no expert but I have built half a dozen PC's over the past ten years and probably fixed 50+ for my employers, friends, family and neighbours (everyone with a problem turns up on our doorstep!), I have dabbled with PC's since the mid 80's when I got my first one at work, I have bought PC's from ebay and auctions in bulk and then fixed them up and sold them on for a bit of extra cash. I am absolutely not an expert but I am comfortable around them. With the price dropping so quickly over the past few years I have really done nothing much apart from a couple of hard drive upgrades and sorted a few software problems out.
So we priced the bits up from both Novatech and ebuyer and money is tight so I bought from both companies to save a few quid. From ebuyer I bought a case, DVD drive, Hard Drive, SSD Drive, CPU and RAM. From Novatech I ordered the PSU (750W), Motherboard and Graphics card. At the time I had sold a few bits on ebay and had a few hundred quid in my Paypal account and decided to pay Novatech by Paypal which I did.
We received the delivery from Novatech on the 12th February (12 days ago).
We built the PC on Sunday 17th of February and everything went well. I loaded Windows 8 on it and everything ran and worked as it should.
Then a day later when he turned it on and there was no graphics output. The Motherboard has no on board built in Graphics so we could not test that. Then it started working again, then it stopped working (intermittent is the word I am looking for). So I pulled the graphics card out of his old PC and checked it was compatible and swapped it over. The PC worked again and then a day later it stopped. No graphics, No BIOS screen (I have updated the BIOS from the motherboard mahufacturers website). I then swapped the monitor and graphics lead and got the same intermittent problem.
I have tried both Graphics cards twice and both have the same problem so I am assuming that they cannot both be faulty, I have run memtest overnight with no problems, I have run a cpu stress test overnight with no problems.
I have found that if it starts up and there is no graphics output that if I turn it off at the mains and leave it for an hour it will start up 90% of the time and once it is running it runs until it is turned off. (It has never crashed)
My best guess is that the problem (intermittent) is either the motherboard or the power supply, I checked power usage for the system with an online power advisor and I was advised 400 to 450W was required and I bought a 750W just in case of future upgrades. (I bought Novatechs own brand which has good reviews).
I do not have a spare large PSU or another motherboard I can test the PC with
So yesterday morning (Saturday) I tried to phone Novatech to discuss this and found that they are not open until 9:00am Monday (fair enough) but I assume that they will ask me to return the PSU and motherboard for testing and possible replacement but this gives me a problem because the PC problem is intermittent and I can see this all taking time and leading to fall outs with Novatech, in the meantime my sons PC will be in bits and he will obviously not have a PC. I have reinstalled windows 7 (fresh install) on his old PC and this is going to be sold (when I can put the graphics card back in!) and I do not want to reinstall MS Office and his games etc back on to it and reactivate everything.
Having thought about this I would like to order a new PSU, Motherboard and Graphics card from ebuyer (different parts just in case there is a product fault) and just swap them over in his new PC and return everything to Novatech for a refund, but I do not want to be hit with a handling charge, I do not want Novatech to replace the parts I send back. Intermittent faults are the worst kind of faults and I could end up arguing with Novatech for a long time whilst my warrenty slips away.
So what about if I tell Novatech about the problems and at the same time make a SNAD claim on Paypal and just return it all (I have all boxes and packaging etc) by recorded delivery (parcel force?)
I have Googled Novatech problems and some people say they have good customer service and technical help and others say they suck, but I do not want this to drag on, even though I would admit that the fault, whatever it is, does not lie with Novatech.
Any advice on anything would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

Lifeforms

As an additional speed up thing, you can detail what you've tested with. BUT also check to see they have stock of the same motherboard, and request a replacement, and in the case of it not being in stock, find another one on their site. Send this to them as a message, or letter when you return it. You may have to pay the extra if it costs extra though.

Have you ruled out all other components, sound card (if you have it) that it's not shorting on the case itself, that memory is working properly (by removing sticks etc)

Can your sons current computer psu take on just the MB power, graphics power, and memory (remove all DVD/CD drives etc, just go bare bones), and can you try the graphics card in his old machine, rather than using it in the new one to make absolutely sure about that. PSU is the fan moving freely and instantly, do you have temperature measurements going to see if something is over heating. Can you try the new PSU in the old case/computer?
Sorry if this is stuff you have done, but it would make it dead on show what the problem is component wise.
Are you sure the MB doesn't have on board graphics?

dug123

Lifeforms,
1st post.
I have no wish at all to punish Novatech but I have goods which I bought which are faulty and the problem is intermittent, I do not want to go through a lengthy return and testing process with Novatech.
I agree that when you buy a prebuilt machine that it should be tested but that does not mean when I buy expensive componants I should just accept that one has an intermittent fault and have to go to all the trouble of taking the PC to bits to send back to the supplier for testing (which takes days) only for them to tell me that the items are not faulty (intermittent).
As for "Just go through the proper returns and testing process, and wait for resolution" That is the point I do not want to wait for a period of time for an intermittent problem to maybe show up during testing. I have paid lots of money (based on my financial circumstances) and I do not want to wait and neither does my son.
As for "I hope novatech read your post, and very easily will match you to a customer and play hard ball with you" What a nasty comment which really is not helpful. I hope you have a horrible Sunday and break your leg.
2nd post
I am going to phone them in the morning and as I explained I believe it is either the MB or PSU and if they offered a repacement then I think it would only be fair to accept that but I will be asking if I can change the parts for others just in case it is a product faulty batch.
I have removed memory and tried one stick at a time and that does not help. I have disconnected hard drive SSD and DVD even though I believe it should still boot to BIOS screen if they are faulty. There is no sound card, I have checked the wiring, The case has a side window and the CPU fan still starts and even the fan on the graphics card spins when it is in intermittent fault mode.
I am very unwilling to try the PSU in his old PC because it is made out of clear acrylic/perspex and is full of lights and all the leads are surrounded by luminous (glow in the dark) sleeves and it really is a showpiece and I took the graphics card out but I am absolutely not removing the PSU.
I am sure that nothing is overheating because it is a problem at start up not when it is running.
I am 100% positive that there are no onboard graphics, not only does the specification say onboard graphics n/a but there is no plug of any type for a monitor.
In conclusion after your second post (more useful) I do not now hope you break your leg (I hope it is just a hairline fracture).

JJ_Egan

dug123 wrote: »

Lifeforms,
1st post.
I have no wish at all to punish Novatech but I have goods which I bought which are faulty and the problem is intermittent,


Do you have an engineers report or can you actually prove the items in question are faulty .
If so contact Pay Pal with your complaint ..
If the faults are just on your say so then its much more difficult . The company have i guess testing in place on RMA goods otherwise every TDH who broke a new part would be returning them .

My thought would be one PSU two motherboard shorting on case or wrong connections third mobo faulty .
Connect PSU Mobo graphics card outside of the case and power on do fans spin if yes then connect monitor and keyboard does it boot to BIOS .

Faulty batch of parts from multiple manufacturers does not make sense .

jje

dug123

JJ Egan
"Do you have an engineers report or can you actually prove the items in question are faulty" No, I obviously do not have an engineers report, if something does not work it does not work. Yes, I can intermittently prove it is faulty. (It does not work intermittently ie sometimes).
Which actual part is at fault I cannot test for.
No, I have not broken anything.
Your thoughts regarding faults are similar to mine, as I said above I have checked all connections and I am sure it is not shorting on the case.
As i said in my previos post all fans spin and yes sometimes it boots to BIOS, it is intermittent, There is nothing I can do to make the fault occur, it is at random.
You say "Faulty batch of parts from multiple manufacturers does not make sense" That is fairly obvious, but if you read the post I do not know which part is giving me the problem INTERMITTENTLY. I am fairly certain that it is just one part that is faulty but I do not know which it is!

Lifeforms

The advice given here has been to swap out, it's the only way to definitely say which part is which. (or at least get it down to 2, the cpu or MB) You've said you've tested the memory, which is fine, that takes it out the equation, lets say the HDD isn't a problem, leaving psu, mb, cpu. Running it without all things plugged in, like DVD drives just rules them out as well.

Just because the psu is a show piece does not mean leave it in the old computer, just put it in to test it (if power plugs are compatible), if the old computer falls over, problem located. Psu returned, new one gained and can go in the new computer. There's no issue in putting a light up PSU in a closed up computer. I had one in my desktop work perfectly fine that way.

CPU is harder to test, are you absolutely sure it's seated ok, with the correct Paste/pad used? Did you use supplied, was it a preinstalled pad, does it feel secure on the board? Did you use other paste, was it really old paste? etc
MB if you can find no shorting via the case, then it could be a shorting on the board itself.

The thing with these stress tests is that they don't always throw up issues.
I had a desktop that fell over a lot. I could run days of constant stress testing and it would be fine, then doing regular computer work and it'd fall over again.

If you get it down to the cpu/mb both of those need to be returned. Unfortunately unless you have a spare of either you wont be able to say which is which, and because you're dealing with two different companies its a bit more a pain, as one hardware item will be fine, the other wont.

If you return the MB and after testing it comes back as being fine, then it should be the cpu.

it's more about trying to save you potential wait time, and to definitely work out the faulty part.

If your sons old desktop is suitable, throw the CPU on to that and make sure it works without the intermittent falling over. Having tried the psu first of course. If it works fine, then naturally the MB is the only one left.

I guess what I and the other poster(s) are trying to get at, is that locating the faulty hardware first is the best thing in your situation, but this takes time, and it seems to come across that you don't want to spend the time doing that. It's not easy when you're trying to problem solve with things like seated CPU's granted, I know. Been there, had the problems too

Phone Novatech on monday, explain the situation, see what they suggest/say, and follow their advice.

I don't think you're gunna get far trying to do a SNAD case through paypal, and it might bite you after doing it. It's not like they've sent you a different incompatible motherboard, or even a roll of toilet paper when you ordered a roll of kitchen paper. It's just a faulty component that is not Novatechs fault, and you might find that the case goes against you because Nova will have a chance to give their side of the story. It's not an instant refund, and iirc even the ebay/paypal ones can go on for 10 days (from memory!) You will also get a full refund, if you did actually win it, and therefore will cause even more problems for Nova/yourself about paying for the other items that do work.

Also if it's the CPU that's the issue, and not user-error, then it's not even Novatech, it's Ebuyers problem.

one other thing are you getting any beeps from the computer at all upon start up that might identify the problem through the MB manual?

JJ_Egan

Phone Novatech on monday, explain the situation, see what they suggest/say, and follow their advice.

Thats what i would do first and see what they say .

jje