'Permitted work' under universal credit.

rogerblack

This is intended to help people understand the rules for working while disabled under the UC rules.
Many are doing 'permitted work' under ESA or IB, and the new rules are radically different.

It is not to discuss policy - if you wish to do that, please start a new thread.

I hope others will clarify misunderstandings.

At the moment, there is a confusing morass of Permitted Work regulations, which vary between those still receiving IB, those on ESA-income based, and ESA-contribution based.

If you have to claim UC - none of this applies.

Firstly - you must have 'limited capability for work' or 'limited capacity for work related activity'.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111531938/regulation/39

This is basically a similar test to the existing ESA rules, which I won't go into further. A decision for ESA purposes carries over to UC.

You cannot be found to have limited capacity of work - starting from being fit - if you are earning over 16 hours minimum wage.
However - someone with an existing assessment that they are not fit for work can have this extended.

Personal allowances.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111531938/regulation/22

The table in the above regulation lists amounts you can work without it affecting your UC.
They differ markedly if you have any help at all with housing costs, and if you are a couple or not.

For example, in my situation, a single person with no housing costs, and a limited capacity for work, I can earn £647/mo - without it affecting my UC.
If I had a partner move in - our combined earnings still could not exceed £647 without it affecting our UC.

With any housing costs help - even a few pounds a week - this changes dramatically.
The above figure falls from £647/mo to £111/mo.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111531938/regulation/36
gives the amounts of UC you are entitled to - without any work income taken into account.

At the moment, a single claimant with no housing costs over 25 in the support group can earn £99/week on top of their £105 ESA.
This would be a maximum of £204/week, or £884/mo.

Under UC, the 'support group' payment rises to £614/mo, and they can earn up to £647, taking them to a total of £1261/mo before UC begins to taper off.

This is the best case.
If you are part of a couple, the above allowances apply to you both.

In short.
For single claimants with no housing costs, the new scheme is lots better than the existing permitted work rules.
There is a monthly reporting period - not weekly - this will help those whos abilities fluctuate.
The limits in your total earnings are over half again as generous, and there are no hours limits.
Even if you go over the 'limits' - your benefit is just gradually tapered, not eliminated.
There is no insane 'year on, year off' as with the existing permitted work scheme under ESA-work related group.

For those with housing costs, or worse, couples with housing costs - it's much less generous, though the same benefits above apply.
A particularly nasty additional cliff-edge occurs if any earning at all is done, and you would otherwise be eligible for SMI. Then you don't get any SMI at all.

dseventy

Do you have a question?

D70

Horseunderwater

Currently we are IR ESA support group - neither of us works at present.
Under UC from what I have just read we might get benefit of £792.72 as by then our daughter will be away to Uni. At least I hope she will.
So are you saying that my OH could do some work and earn upto £647/ month on top of that figure without incurring any deductions on our joint UC claim?
And what do you mean by housing costs? Do you mean HB as is now or SMI as is now?

rogerblack

Horseunderwater wrote: »

Currently we are IR ESA support group - neither of us works at present.
Under UC from what I have just read we might get benefit of £792.72 as by then our daughter will be away to Uni. At least I hope she will.
So are you saying that my OH could do some work and earn upto £647/ month on top of that figure without incurring any deductions on our joint UC claim?
And what do you mean by housing costs? Do you mean HB as is now or SMI as is now?

In short - yes.
If you are both on UC - migrated from IR-ESA - then the amount you can earn is the same as if you were a single person.
Housing costs would include SMI, HB, LHA, ... (Not CTB).
The £647/mo applies per household

Horseunderwater

Thanks Roger.
It would seem then that we either continue getting the SMI for the time it will still be paid or he finds some work in order that we can still pay the mortgage. But at least our capital has been reducing and the payments will go down quite a bit in June next year - so that for the moment they should not be such a problem.
We get TC for our daughter at the moment, but that will stop in 2014, once she leaves college - just not sure of exact date yet. So we may have a little UC bit during 2014. We shall see what happens nearer the time once people have begun to be moved over onto it.

zagfles

rogerblack wrote: »

In short - yes.
If you are both on UC - migrated from IR-ESA - then the amount you can earn is the same as if you were a single person.
Housing costs would include SMI, HB, LHA, ... (Not CTB).
The £647/mo applies per household

You can't get "SMI" ie mortage interest support under UC if you have any earned income. There is no "work allowance" there at all, as I understand it. See schedule 5 part 2.

Horseunderwater

That I did know - I was trying to work out the best way forward for us once it happens. It may happen sooner than expected as well. My ESA does not expire until 2015, but the TC - UC will come in after April 2014 - so they may move the ESA sooner rather than later. Then there is the DLA PIP thing to deal with... Will it ever end?

Weary_soul

Interesting, but it seems that the CAB aren't so positive about this and appear to be very concerned about the effect UC will have on the working disabled.

"Half a million disabled people could lose out under universal credit"

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/macnn/press_20121017

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/universalcredit

rogerblack

Weary_soul wrote: »

Interesting, but it seems that the CAB aren't so positive about this and appear to be very concerned about the effect UC will have on the working disabled.

It's complex.

I was adressing only the situation of disabled people doing permitted work.
For single claimants with no housing costs, this is in general much more generous.

The migration to universal credit has lots of disabled and nondisabled winners and losers.
Some of which turn out to be very questionable from the perspective of 'work should always pay'.

Weary_soul

For single claimants with no housing costs, this is in general much more generous.

The thing I'm most concerned about is to keep having WCA to be able to claim this element for as w all know It's very hard to pass these damn medicals and so I can see all sorts of problems when they use WCA to asses anyone who's meant to be unwell/disabled and yet wants to do some kind of limited work.

I see endless rejections ahead and with ATOS citing part of their work as proof the claimant is well enough to work full time.

bloolagoon

I think the ability to have greater earning capacity whilst claiming ESA is a very good thing indeed. Many need a gentle start into working and this will aid any transitional periods and is a very positive addition to what at the moment feels like a lot of cuts.