Parked in Staff Bay in error

Stroma

Very often ncp are the landowner though. As I said there are advantages and disadvantages in going to popla, and you need to make an informed decision in going there, I suggest doing some research on here and on pepipoo.com for this. You shouldn't go there until you are conversant in what a popla appeal is.

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

Very often ncp are the landowner though. As I said there are advantages and disadvantages in going to popla, and you need to make an informed decision in going there, I suggest doing some research on here and on pepipoo.com for this. You shouldn't go there until you are conversant in what a popla appeal is.

Seconded..

Coupon-mad

bobbuild wrote: »

Yes, the email mentioned POPLA and there is a verification code. I haven't responded to it. I was under the impression that it was pretty much a waste of time.

Waste of time not to, IMHO. People are winning the vast majority of these POPLA appeals now. You just need to get it worded strongly so read any 'POPLA appeal' threads on here and on pepipoo forums, there are LOADS.

bobbuild wrote: »

I guess I may as well go down the POPLA route then so that I have covered all bases. I presume it is pretty straightforward.

Yes the procedure is straightforward but your appeal should not be. You need to read some POPLA threads on here and pepipoo, you'll soon see the sort of legal points about their contract and their legal status and their rubbish signs and tickets and Notices, and BPA Code of Practice breaches to mention.

bobbuild

The problem is I don't dispute that I inadvertently parked in a staff only bay. However, I offered to either pay the difference between the PCN and the £20+ I had already paid or to pay the full PCN amount if my parking charge was credited. This was rejected. So can I still go down the POPLA route?

Stroma

Yes you can. This will never go to court, but if it did it would show you were very willing to mitigate as much as possible. They would be utterly insane to even contemplate this, the judge would look at this and throw it out IMO

Kite2010

If it went to court, any judge would see you paid your fees, but accidentally parked in a "staff" bay, causing no loss to the landowner, will probably be thrown out faster than a tennis ball from an automatic pitcher.

Coupon-mad

bobbuild wrote: »

The problem is I don't dispute that I inadvertently parked in a staff only bay. However, I offered to either pay the difference between the PCN and the £20+ I had already paid or to pay the full PCN amount if my parking charge was credited. This was rejected. So can I still go down the POPLA route?

The only problem is you are thinking about what they may allege you did 'wrong' when the best POPLA challenge puts them on the back foot, to prove to POPLA that they haven't done anything wrong.

IMHO POPLA is for turning the tables on the PPC not bleating about what did/didn't happen and losing. Now this is a thread discussing a proper legal challenge response:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77301

and here's a summary on MSE of POPLA decisions so far:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337

Spot the common fact that the winning ones are those with decent arguments against the PPC's contract or BPA compliance, not wittering on about explaining what happened or rolling over when this is ONLY a private, profiteering third party non-owner/occupier firm you are talking about, not some authority! The fact that you offered to pay the difference early on, should be covered clearly in your appeal - by telling POPLA that the PPC impersonated authority with the appearance of the 'ticket' in such a way that, at first, you actually believed you had received a real parking ticket backed by statute. Then you looked further into it and discovered it was simply an invoice full of holes.

And if you/the driver parked in the wrong bay then surely a big part of your argument is going to be that there were insufficient signs to tell you otherwise (take photos if local) which is a breach of the BPA Code of Practice. No-one would deliberately park in the wrong bay for £xxx when they could park in another bay for peanuts, it simply was not an informed choice by the driver because the PPC (deliberately?) failed to sign the area clearly.

And indeed because you/the driver clearly never saw any sign that told you that you couldn't park there nor did you in any shape or form 'agree' to a ridiculous 'penalty' then there is simply no contract anyway established between them and the driver.

You must also require the PPC to show a copy of the site agreement/contract to POPLA as you believe it's not BPA CoP compliant, has missing information as required by the BPA CoP and does not grant the PPC sufficient rights in the land to make contracts with drivers nor to allege trespass where the third party PPC has evidently suffered no loss.

You can also add in a load of stuff about the charge being punitive and an unfair contract, a bit like this (not written by me):

''Even if there was a contract (which is already expressly denied in this appeal):

- The 'charge' the PPC is seeking to impose is punitive and therefore null and void (i.e. unenforceable). The £xx charge is arbitrary and disproportionate to any alleged breach of contract - and indeed a breach of contract cannot lawfully be remedied with a penalty.

- The £xx charge the PPC seeks to impose is an unreasonable indemnity clause under section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness''.

- The £xx charge the PPC seeks to impose is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term."



There's a few starters for you, let's see what you draft please - do start with your actual reason for parking there if it was because the signs were unclear or there was another good reason to park there. If not then gloss over that part a bit, state that you already paid £20+ so neither the PPC nor the landowner has in any way suffered any loss whatsoever - and just go for the 'legal challenge, show the contract, you've breached the BPA CoP' angles.

bobbuild

I thought it was about time I updated this thread.

To date I have received 3 letters from our friends Newlyn Debt Collections Ltd.

The first, on 25/6/2013 asking for £114 (not sure where they picked that arbitrary amount from) advising me "Do not ignore this letter. Further action may be taken at considerable cost to you if the debt is not cleared"

2nd on 9/7/2013 expressing their disappointment that I hadn't coughed up this ludicrous sum of money and stating "subsequent failure to clear the amount in full may result in the debt being taken to court".

The 3rd, and presumably final, letter states " We are instructed to recover the above sum, arising from a Parking Charge Notice issued by our clients National Car Parks Limited. You are formally advised that unless payment is received within 14 days, proceedings will be initiated in the County Court where a judgement may be obtained. The County Court Judgement may then be enforced by a court appointed bailiff which will incur substantial costs. It is therefore in your interest to pay immediately."

I'm not going to respond to this and, if it does come down to it, I am quite prepared to fight this in court. Not only are NCP not out of pocket, I paid for a full weeks parking, but I also offered to pay there pathetic PCN if they were prepared to refund my parking fee. Needless to say no response was made to this offer or a subsequent letter making the offer again and asking them to cease the harassment by Newlyn.

I'd be interested to hear how anyone thinks this may pan out....

Stroma

It's highly unlikely to go to court, particularly as there is no loss. They would be nuts to take this further. My thoughts are just ignore it as they won't go beyond threatograms.

bobbuild

Thanks for your comments Stroma. I'll let you know if I get any further communication.