"the amount the law says you need to live on.."

Nada666

missapril75 wrote: »

On the other hand, minimum wage is supposed to be a minimum.

But you still get less than the minimum after tax and NI.

Minimum wage is not the minimum you need to live on. It is a minimum you ought to paid for an hour's work. Nothing to do with the other.

And housing benefit plus council tax plus jsa is not significantly less for most over the age of 25.

bloolagoon

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

There are 365 days in a year.

Good grief when did they change that!

missapril75

Nada666 wrote: »

Minimum wage is not the minimum you need to live on. It is a minimum you ought to paid for an hour's work. Nothing to do with the other.

I never said it was.

I simply gave it as an example of something else that was supposed to be a minimum but by the time you got it, it was less.


It was simply an example to show that not everything is to be taken literally.

LittleMax

ILW wrote: »

Levels of benefits etc are set every year by government. At no point is this based on any law that requires them to be enough to live on.

When the Social Security and Benefits Act 1992 was passed the rates in it became 'what the law said you need to live off'. Whether those figures were enough to live off in reality would always be open to debate. However our elected representatives voted it through and so those were the figures used.

These are increased each year, in accordance with section 150 of the Social security Administration Act 1992

"The Secretary of State shall in each tax year review the sums—
(a)specified in the following provisions of the Contributions and Benefits Act— ...
...in order to determine whether they have retained their value in relation to the general level of prices obtaining in Great Britain estimated in such manner as the Secretary of State thinks fit."

Again whether you agree or not with the figures used is irrelevant, they were what politicians decided was enough to live off back then, and what each Secretary of State has decided has kept this abreast of general prices ever since.

When they say in letter 'what the law says you need to live off' they are simplifying the legal position, but it is a true statement.

In my personal opinion the phrase should be changed to 'what the law says you need in order to survive' but DM readers, would I'm sure take the view that the amount is enough to live off and buy luxury items

ILW wrote: »

At no point is this based on any law that requires them to be enough to live on.

Well no one says it was - it was an amount decided by civil servants at the DSS based on the lowest they thought they would get away with at the time. This in turn was accepted by the politicians and the bill passed through both parliaments and received royal assent, at this point the law was changed and the figures in the Social Security and Benefits Act 1992 became law.

ILW

LittleMax wrote: »

When the Social Security and Benefits Act 1992 was passed the rates in it became 'what the law said you need to live off'. Whether those figures were enough to live off in reality would always be open to debate. However our elected representatives voted it through and so those were the figures used.

These are increased each year, in accordance with section 150 of the Social security Administration Act 1992

"The Secretary of State shall in each tax year review the sums—
(a)specified in the following provisions of the Contributions and Benefits Act— ...
...in order to determine whether they have retained their value in relation to the general level of prices obtaining in Great Britain estimated in such manner as the Secretary of State thinks fit."

Again whether you agree or not with the figures used is irrelevant, they were what politicians decided was enough to live off back then, and what each Secretary of State has decided has kept this abreast of general prices ever since.

When they say in letter 'what the law says you need to live off' they are simplifying the legal position, but it is a true statement.

In my personal opinion the phrase should be changed to 'what the law says you need in order to survive' but DM readers, would I'm sure take the view that the amount is enough to live off and buy luxury items



Well no one says it was - it was an amount decided by civil servants at the DSS based on the lowest they thought they would get away with at the time. This in turn was accepted by the politicians and the bill passed through both parliaments and received royal assent, at this point the law was changed and the figures in the Social Security and Benefits Act 1992 became law.

Where does it state that the amount is what one needs to live off?
That is just your interpretation and is not a part of any law or statute.

LittleMax

missapril75 wrote: »

Obviously the fact that people may receive less (or more) than laid down rates means there is no strict law about what one absolutely must have to live on.

It doesn't change the fact that the government, via its agency, does issue forms which repeatedly use an expression that describes what the law says one needs to live on.

That people believe it means what it says is not unreasonable.

The phrase is 'what the law says you need to live off' this is true and the 'you' in this phrase refers to one individual not you in a general sense. So yes, every individual has an allowance which is set by law.

LittleMax

ILW wrote: »

Where does it state that the amount is what one needs to live off?
That is just your interpretation and is not a part of any law or statute.

Suggest you actually read my post.

ILW

LittleMax wrote: »

Suggest you actually read my post.

Your post seems to contradict itself, are you saying there is or is not a law that states the minimum a person requires to live on?

LittleMax

Yes, it's the Social Security and Benefits Act 1992

Do I personally agree that the amounts set are enough to live off? No I don't.

LittleMax

This is still relevant and interesting, and covers many of the points in this discussion. It's a transcript of an old Radio 4 Inside Money programme...