Section 75 Claim Problems

dixiemoo

Hello

We had windows and doors replaced and paid on a credit card. Unfortunately the company closed down soon afterwards, leaving the following issues:

1) No FENSA certificate has been given even though it was part of the order. The local council say they can do it but it will cost about £200 :eek:

2) The 10 year guarantee was given by the company that has closed. It wasn't insured like some companies do. Again, this is on the paperwork.

3) There are some faults that need fixing, e.g. door is letting cold air through and a couple of the windows seem to have dropped a bit & two sealed units need replacing.

I have been in contact with the credit card company and they have pretty much blanked me, even though I've sent all the documents to them they have come up with ridiculous reasons not to accept the claim.

One point of theirs is that there is no guarantee because I haven't provided them with the terms of the guarantee. This is because I never received anything from the window firm. The paperwork for that was supposed to come through after the installation but then the company closed. The credit card company is using this to claim there is no evidence for a guarantee. They also say there is no evidence of any problems with the windows. Should I get someone out to provide a report and will their costs be able to be added to the claim?

I have emails between me and the company before the sale and there is a 10 year guarantee stated on the quote and order paperwork.

How would a credit card company normally sort this out? Would they just keep the case open for the length of the guarantee and then simply pay for the costs of any repair work as required for the length of the guarantee period?

I don't know how to proceed with this and their policy is clearly to frustrate customers to make them go away. Don't know what to do next

meer53

Credit card issuers will need evidence that a guarantee was included in the price, they will also need evidence of the faults you describe.

An independant report is usually needed for this. As for the guarantee, if you can prove that it was included they would normally ask you to get a quote for another warranty and they would then pay this.

How long ago were the windows fitted ? This could affect the length of any warranty they will pay for.

dixiemoo

Thanks for replying meer53

Windows were fitted about 18 months ago.

How would I get an independent report? Would a quote from a different window company be sufficient? Or someone more specialist?

The guarantee is listed on the invoice order form but there were no terms provided. I did ask about the guarantee before the order and was told it was 10 years long and covered everything i.e. frames (including internal mechanisms) and glass units. Any recommendations for warranty providers to obtain a quote from?

meer53

I'd contact trading standards for advice as to who to contact.

dalesrider

I would have thought that FENSA would be the best place to start for a independent report.
Will fensa supply the certificate?

CC co will need proof to take it forward. They won't simply rool over and pay up.
You could of course simply take them to court.

chattychappy

Given the likely scale of the work (hundreds of pounds, perhaps thousands) I agree - getting a report would be a proportionate cost to incur in the circumstances.

Against a report, the email evidence of a warranty being agreed as part of the deal, the plain fact that windows can be reasonably expected to last longer than 18 months, I think you would have enough to demand payment under S75 or sue the CC or go to the FOS if they stall. I would also take photos if anything is obvious to the eye.

No doubt FENSA can advise, but I believe a condition of their guarantee is that the work is done and you sign it off as being satisfied and return their paperwork. (Can't remember the details but my mother had something done. I think the guarantee didn't automatically kick in.) This could be a bit of a complication. But if in the emails you were just offered a "guarantee" without it being subject to anything then you should be OK. Also, as I say, under normal consumer protection law 18 months isn't really long enough for a product of this nature. The report may well confirm that the work wasn't done properly in the first place anyway.

dixiemoo

Thanks for the replies I thought about court but probably more comfortable going via the Ombudsman, unless there's an advantage to the court process?

I did speak with Fensa and they searched the installation address but found no record. It looks like the company hadn't submitted it to Fensa. Fensa said they can't do anything to help (they say they don't have anything to do with guarantees) and said the only way to sort out the building regs compliance is to get the local council inspector to survey it. Obviously this will cost a fair bit extra but I think the credit card firm is liable for this as it was supposed to be done as part of the job.

Didn't think of trading standards, I'll try and speak with them & see what they suggest regarding a warranty provider. They may be able to suggest an independent surveyor to provide the report. There are small cracks above and below a few newly installed windows so I want to make sure there's nothing serious there!

dixiemoo

Just to update i've not been able to find anyone to do the report yet. Frustrating. But will keep trying. It seems when I say it's a claim for a credit card they zone out because they don't understand what that is, or don't want to get involved in a dispute.

Window firms seem happy to come round (one said they'd send an installer with the salesman) to do a quote on the work that is needed but I'm not sure whether that'll suffice for the S75. They've said whatever faults they find they'll quote for and that will be given to me in writing which is probably the best proposal so far. What do you think?

chattychappy

dixiemoo wrote: »

They've said whatever faults they find they'll quote for and that will be given to me in writing which is probably the best proposal so far. What do you think?

Sounds good to me. Ultimately you'd have to prove it to the satisfaction of a judge and not the CC. He would just decide it on what is more likely than not. Against the quote giving details of what needs to be done, any photos you have and your verbal evidence what would the CC have to say?

Of course you don't want to go to court. But you can only do what's reasonable and if the CC don't accept that then off you go! They are always free to get off their backsides and come over and take a look.. afterall they jointly contracted to get this job done. That's s75 for you.

dixiemoo

chattychappy wrote: »

Sounds good to me. Ultimately you'd have to prove it to the satisfaction of a judge and not the CC. He would just decide it on what is more likely than not. Against the quote giving details of what needs to be done, any photos you have and your verbal evidence what would the CC have to say?

Of course you don't want to go to court. But you can only do what's reasonable and if the CC don't accept that then off you go! They are always free to get off their backsides and come over and take a look.. afterall they jointly contracted to get this job done. That's s75 for you.

It seems that the company I mentioned in post 8 misunderstood and they clarified they don't want to get involved in a dispute. I told them the original company no longer exists but they still don't want to get involved. I don't understand why they're all like this. They say the cowboys of the industry give them all a bad name but instead of helping, they hide away.

I can get a national company (Everest/Safestyle) out but they say they'll send a sales person to do a quote, not an installer.

Obviously they both want the business but it sounded like they'll just do a quote for total replacement of the entire job. Should I just go ahead with this and then if the credit card company wants to send their own specialist to double check, let them do that? I'm feeling fed up with this now and just want it resolved but there seem to be so many obstacles

dalesrider

dixiemoo wrote: »

Obviously they both want the business but it sounded like they'll just do a quote for total replacement of the entire job. Should I just go ahead with this and then if the credit card company wants to send their own specialist to double check, let them do that? I'm feeling fed up with this now and just want it resolved but there seem to be so many obstacles

I would get a quote for whatever you can. Then talk to your card provider to give them s update.

Shows how sad it is when a company won't give a quote for work to resolve a problem.
I bet all they want is a simple replace the whole lot. As i suppose that means any issues they will take the can for it, rather than trying to fix something, that is far more likely to go wrong in the future.