No wonder people can't sell !

lessonlearned

sussexchick wrote: »

hello all

Just wanted to say many thanks to those that have posted their experiences, good and bad, and to the lovely LL who has given me so much advice. Thank you

I have totally re-thought my approach on house hunting and have taken on board so much information, which you have all kindly given. My only defence would be that I am nieve and trust far too many people in this world. Now put me in my own line of work, and I know what I'm talking about ! ..... then I can give you a good run for your money ! :rotfl:

I suppose my first post was also rather 'rantish/letting off steam', combined with a fear of starting a new job in a new area.

I shall update you kind peeps shortly ..................

How nice to be called "lovely". Makes a delightful change from the all the usual unthinking knee-jerk "all estate agents are either crap or greedy sleazsebags" that goes on.

It is so nice to be appreciated.

As I mentioned I am going to be very busy as from next week - wall to wall appts and all manner of stuff going on, marketing my elderly parents cottage, house-hunting for them, helping them to move.

Once all that is done and dusted I shall be ready to go for launch with my new venture.

I am going to be too busy to post on here so Sussexchick please feel free to pm me if you need any further tips or advice.

In RL I act as a mentor to a number of small time property investors, advising on their portfolios and business plans. I see it as my way of "putting back" into society for all the good things that my career in property has brought me.

Similarly that is why I have been happy to post on some of these threads and give advice and tips For Free.

To me that is what this site is supposed to be about, a mutual exchange of tips and ideas.

Better_Days

lessonlearned wrote: »

Interesting comments about your difficulties about finding properties suitable for those with mobility issues.

I understand completely because my husband is a wheelchair user. I have become something of an expert on property which is best suited to disabled or elderly people. I had to.

Not all bungalows are always automatically suitable. Many of them are unfit for the purpose for which they are supposed to be intended.

A little tip for you.

All new builds constructed after 2007 have to comply with EU regulations to make them more wheelchair user friendly in order to "future proof" our housing stock for an ageing population.

For example better access, ie no large flights of steps to the front door, wider staircases to take a stair lift etc, wider doorways for wheelchairs and zimmer frames.

Hope that helps you in your search.

Another point that is often overlooked is that often apartments have a larger square footage than say a town house, so don't automatically rule them out. They can be a perfect solution for people with mobility issues.

Some smaller 2 or 3 bed bungalows can be very "pokey", very small bedrooms. Fine if are fit but useless if you need mobility aids such as zimmer frames, wheelchairs, bathing equipment or need a hospital type bed.

My friends mother bought a 2 bed bungalow. It was fine until she fell and smashed her leg and became a wheelchair user. Luckily my friend's husband was a builder. He had to rip the place apart and rebuild it, enlarging the bathroom to make it big enough to take bathing equipment, knocking out corridors and widening doorways, building ramps.

I recently viewed a fabulous development, all apartments. It was not a retirement development but many of the apartments had been purchased by downsizers and retirees who were buying suitable properties that would be "future proof" for their changing needs.

Easy access, full size lifts, wide doorways, no silly corridors with bends in the middle, large bathrooms that could accommodate ability aids and equipment. Each ground floor apartment came with a small patio and garden, the first floor apartments each had at least one proper balcony - not a Juliette balcony where you can't sit out and the top floor "penthouses" had fabulous roof gardens.

Each apartment was very spacious with a generous square footage, far bigger than many bungalows, town houses or semis which were around the same price.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks for your thoughts LL. You are right many bungalows can have narrow corridors, especially the 'sideways on' ones. I didn't know that the later builds were to specific standards. I have tended towards the older (post war) as they seem to be more solidly built - I like solid internal walls - important for soundproofing when needing to rest much of the day.

It is very frustrating when EA don't provide enough info on RM, some just like to list on RM as a 'taster' to try and entice people to view. And without a floor-plan it can be very difficult to visualise the 'flow' of the property, and whether or not any adjustments are feasible.

An apartment is not really what we are looking for, we have pets, and would very much like to have chickens again. Although an apartment maybe the way to go as the years go by

We will find the right property in the end, just don't want to get exhausted looking at totally unsuitable places.

lessonlearned

onlyroz wrote: »

I agree with this. Other comments on this thread appear to suggest that a typical estate agent is in no way interested in finding out what the buyers actually want. In most cases maximum cost is an absolute and if potential buyers down-play their true maximum it's because they know the estate agents will do their best to push people beyond this. People can usually categorically say how many bedrooms they require as well, because they know how many people will have to live in the property.

It's just lazy marketing to blitz all potential buyers with every single property on offer, and can only result in wasted time and frustrated buyers. It's fair enough saying that estate agents are on the side of the seller, but it's the buyers who have the money and they *will* just walk away if they're confronted with lazy marketing and overly aggressive sales tactics.

Just a couple of points to help you see things from another perspective.

1. Your point about "absolute cost" is very often not the case.

I have had purchasers ring me furious because I haven't sent them details of properties that they had previously told me would be above their budget.

When I pointed this out, they would calmly say "Oh well we can go higher for the right property". How can I be expected to know this if I'm not properly briefed.:rotfl:

So yes I would sometimes err on the side of caution and send out lots of property details which may or may not have been appropriate. Many agents do this for exactly the same reason.

If you receive a load of property details you don't want or need you only have to give them a cursory glance and double check that they are not what you are looking for and then chuck the offending details in the bin. Not rocket science is it, so why so angry when agents do this. The agent is paying for the wretched printing and postage costs. It's costing you nothing.

2. A purchaser has asked me to send details of properties with 3 bedrooms. I have a property with 5 bedrooms for a similar price. Of course I'm going to send out the details.

The purchaser may well think "Oh goody, extra bedrooms, we can turn the extra space into a proper study or a hobby room. How about a special designated dressing area kitted out with fitted wardrobes and cupboards, or what many people do - an extra family /play room or what my grown up son has - his own "man room".:rotfl:

There is no law that says extra bedrooms have to be used as bedrooms......

To you it may seem like "lazy marketing" in reality it's about trying to cover as many bases as possible by offering prospective purchasers choices and options.

Time and time again, purchasers will chop and change their minds about their requirements, their budgets, their timescales. An experienced EA knows this and will therefore be careful to offer plenty of choice.

I know that EA's are generally held in extremely low esteem but our role is merely that of a "Go-between" - we are only the "Messenger".

An EA is always "Piggy in the Middle" - and when Vendors and Purchasers are being unrealistic, unreasonable, dishonest and downright greedy, getting up to all sorts of unseemly antics and shady shennanigins then the "middle" isn't always a comfortable place to be.

Yes there are useless EA's - of course there are - just as there are useless doctors, teachers, policemen, and on and on. There are also an awful lot of nasty, greedy, shameless Vendors and Purchasers out there too.

I won't be posting again because apart from some of the more reasonable among you who have been prepared to listen to my comments with an open mind, there are far too many of you who hold totally unreasonable and entrenched views.

Far too many of you point blank refuse to try and see anyone's point of view but your own. You are on the side of the angels and all EA's are lying cheating demons in disguise.

Ah well - no point in me wasting any more of my time sharing my knowledge and expertise with you and passing on a few valuable tips.

You obviously know it all.......

onlyroz

I can only judge based on the estate agents I have dealt with. Some have been excellent. The best are well-informed about the properties they are selling, and go the extra mile to come up with suggestions for properties that meet the customer's requirements. However, considering that a house purchase is the most expensive transaction that a typical person makes, it seems like far too many estate agents have insufficient knowledge about the "product" they are attempting to sell, and employ tactics that lead the buyers to believe that they are untrustworthy.

If I go to buy a car, or a new hi-fi system, or a new computer, I expect the salesperson to be well informed about the product's features and to have the skills to steer me towards the product that best suits my requirements. I don't expect any less from an estate agent.

lessonlearned

onlyroz wrote: »

I

If I go to buy a car, or a new hi-fi system, or a new computer, I expect the salesperson to be well informed about the product's features and to have the skills to steer me towards the product that best suits my requirements. I don't expect any less from an estate agent.

Are you mad.

When you go to buy an electrical appliance your well informed salesperson will "steer" you to the one which pays them the most commission.

Look at the prices on the tickets. I'm not going to reveal it but there's a secret code on them which tells the salesperson which pay the most commission.

How do I know this - I once worked for a large electrical superstore:rotfl:.

The antics of the salespeople were shameless.

As for training - ha - you were thrown onto the shop floor - it was up to the individual to try and read up the brochures in their tea breaks. Obviously most of them can't be bothered, they've only got 15 minutes and they are not going to waste it working.

The only "training" was the manager telling you which stock he wanted you to flog that week.

Surely you should know that a house is not just a "product".

A house should never be "sold" to a purchaser - it should be bought by the purchaser.

A subtle but very real difference, which you've clearly not grasped.

If I had ever caught a member of my team trying to "sell" a property they would have been sacked.

When training new staff I used to teach them that it was their job to assist the purchaser to buy not to "sell".

My exact words to them were "You are not in a car show-room flogging second hand motors".

gozaimasu

lessonlearned wrote: »

Yes you are.

Simply leaving your name and contact details with an EA...

If she had just left her name and address...

I'm a first time buyer who is not actively looking to buy at the moment. Something that puts me off is having to go on an estate agent's database just to look at a property I might want to buy.

Can you tell me what details you take from a buyer in order to view?

Why do you need those details? How long do you store them for?

onlyroz

lessonlearned I wasn't talking about Dixons or Currys where you are served by a spotty teenager who doesn't have a clue. I am talking about the high end hi-Fi shops where they take you into a soundproofed room and set up a custom system for you to try out all the components. They then have the knowledge to advise on which items are best for your budget and room size. Why shouldn't this level of service be the norm at an estate agent? Where they genuinely care about selling you the best house for your requirements rather than steering you towards the property which will give the most commission but which will ultimately lead to a dissatisfied customer who will tell others not to touch you with a barge pole.

moneyistooshorttomention

I would say that it's the buyers own responsibility to ensure that they only buy a place they are happy with. Estate agents cant be blamed for any unhappiness with the house someone eventually buys (bar the place having a major defect that the EA knows about, but doesnt mention - ie because its the vendor that is paying their wages and not the buyer).

At the lower price end of the market then people are very lucky indeed if they can find a place they are actively happy with - it's a question of getting the best possible for the money available and that will give the least cause for being unhappy with it. For most of us, we don't have enough money available to be able to get a place we are actively happy with and actually "love" - but it is up to us personally to get the best for our money that we can manage to.

When it came to buying my current (starter level) house then I soon learnt what we all learn - ie that we will get sent details of all sorts of houses that are very different to what we have specified we require. You just accept that the vast majority of details they send will go into the bin/delete list on email and that its necessary to winnow through everything to check for that once in a blue moon "as specified" property they supply details of.

Personally, I gave up using estate agents for my search when I was looking before and did my own search for a house to buy. I wasnt able to afford a place I would be happy with, but worked out what I would be "least unhappy with" and bought that one. My choice and I did the best I could at the time with what money I had available. That's all most of us can do.

lessonlearned

onlyroz wrote: »

lessonlearned I wasn't talking about Dixons or Currys where you are served by a spotty teenager who doesn't have a clue. I am talking about the high end hi-Fi shops where they take you into a soundproofed room and set up a custom system for you to try out all the components. They then have the knowledge to advise on which items are best for your budget and room size. Why shouldn't this level of service be the norm at an estate agent? Where they genuinely care about selling you the best house for your requirements rather than steering you towards the property which will give the most commission but which will ultimately lead to a dissatisfied customer who will tell others not to touch you with a barge pole.

In an average EA's office - for 1-3% - that level of one to one service is just impossible.

If you are buying a new build then the negotiator on site will know the development inside and out and will be able to focus all attention on the purchaser. I would spend hours with a purchaser, shutting the office if need be to show them around. I would set up appts for them to view schools etc.

If I had a purchaser who couldn't come into my office I would just go and see them in their office.

In short - yes - they received a 5 star service, but they were paying for it - in the form of my generous salary and the commissions and bonuses that the developers paid me for my services. Was I worth it - I like to think so. My employers were always happy.

Were the purchasers - well judging by the gifts of wine, flowers, sweeties and smellies they bought me as thank you presents I would hazard a guess that they were.

One thing I am very proud of is my track record. In all the time I worked in new build I never lost a sale, I never had one single cancellation. Cancellations cost a developer a lot of money so I'm delighted to say that not only did I provide a first class service to my purchasers I also helped my employer's keep to their budgets.

Something that they appreciated very much judging by the size of my bonuses.

When I sold abroad I would spent several days with prospective purchasers showing them around. Not just the houses, but the whole area. If I told you how much commission I charged the Vendors you would faint........:rotfl:

Which brings me back to the crux of the matter really and that is the way the system works in the UK.

Given the standard EA commission rates and the overheads of a high street office, they pay low wages and do not always attract the highest calibre of staff.

In places like the US a Realtor will work on a commission only basis with no salary safety net. Will you get a good service - you betcha they need to make the sales.

If you want a 5 star one to one service you will have to pay for it, just like your high end Hi-Fi purchase from a good quality retailer.

lessonlearned

Money - You make some very valid comments there about compromise and "winnowing" - lovely word:D your way through the EA's literature.

This is really it in a nutshell. Given our current system - it is up to the purchaser to be pro-active and do the leg work.

A simple fact that often escapes people is that not all houses are sold through estate agents. If you are only using EA's and internet property portals you are missing a trick. You could well be missing out on the chance of finding a suitable property. An EA's office is rarely the place to find "the deal of a lifetime";)

My advice to any would be purchaser is not to put all your eggs in one basket. Don't just rely on the conventional EA route.

There are more ways than one to skin a cat - they are dozens of ways to search for your dream house. Be pro-active and use your imagination.

Happy Hunting.