Feeding an Elderly Dog

Honey_Bear

Firstly, I'd like to state that Dog goes to the vet pretty much every week, and I'm not seeking vet-type advice on this thread.

I took on the care of a 13 year old dog three years ago, so she's now 16. She has always had a tricky digestive system and the vet is treating that as an ongoing condition. There is only one hypo-allergenic dog food she will eat, but after each serious tummy upset it takes forever to reintroduce it, and we're not at that stage in the cycle at the moment. In short, she should be on a chicken and rice diet, or fish and crushed potato. (The BARF diet has been expressly ruled out for this dog by the vet.)

She's gradually rejecting more and more food, and will cry with hunger late at night if I don't give her food she wants, thinking, mistakenly that if she's hungry enough she'll eat whatever I give her. She has other health problems, but they are being as successfully managed as they can be. The vet has also checked her mouth and teeth, and there are no problems there at all.

The latest rejects are rice, potato, sweet potato and peas, all of which she has eaten voraciously in the past. She will occasionally accept a carrot stick to crunch on but thinks that cooked carrot is devil-spawn.

She will eat cooked (deboned obviously) chicken thighs, but not breast. She will also eat sardines, but yakks them up if she is given them too early in the day - later is fine.

I'm now getting concerned about her, and have discussed this massively restricted diet with the vet and the vet nurses, who love her to bits but their best advice is 'Just give her what she'll eat, as long as it doesn't upset her. She has a problem with her gut and you're stuck with it.' They have never been able to get her to eat when she's been admitted to their ward for any length of time, and have acknowledged that that is very unusual They've even gone out and bought her fresh fish to see if that would work, to no avail.

I'm asking for anyone's experience and best suggestions as to how to add some vegetable and carbohydrate into her diet, as I think that pure protein really can't be good for her for the rest of her days.

Both she and I would be very grateful indeed if anyone can suggest anything.

krlyr

Any particular reason you think pure protein isn't good for her? Descending from the mainly carnivorous (I know they scavenge some plant matter) wolves, dogs have a very similar digestive system.
I know we often think protein = bad for the organs but a good quality, easily digested protein like chicken, fish or egg is probably going to be better for her organs than harder to digest ingredients like cereals or vegetables.
Mine rarely eat cereal or vegetable - they may get small amounts, e.g. dinner leftovers, some form of potato or maybe a bit of flour in treats but generally, it's meat, offal and bone, and has been for several years now. Having just had one of them tested quite thoroughly last year for health issues (behavioural symptoms that turned out to be related to being hypothyroid), much of her bloodwork came back well within normal range, with no cause for concern with her health/diet.
Not saying it's the only diet that works for dogs, but from my experience, it definately is a diet that works, mine rarely suffer from tummy upsets or other bugs (both only ever having suffered from a tummy bug twice each in their 6.5 years - one of those being before she was raw-fed too), and in great condition weight, coat, skin, ear and teethwise too.

Is there any particular reason the BARF diet has been ruled out? I know it's not for every dog, but there are products like Natural Instinct which is a high quality, pre-prepared raw food of human grade. Also, being minced, it rules out the risks associated with eating bones.

Otherwise, have you tried something like Nature Diet? I know it's worked for quite a few fussy dogs and settled quite a few dodgy tummies. I fed it to my previous dog when she went through a fussy stage too. You can microwave it so it's warm, which often appeals more too. They do a range of flavours as well, if she gets bored easily (the fish one is really stinky and a firm favourite with the dogs - not so much with the humans who have to smell it!)

Or how about looking into dietary supplements to give alongside the fish/potato/chicken/rice diet? That way you can be a bit more confident about her getting the vitamins and minerals she needs.

Honey_Bear

Thank you for your comments kylyr.

I've always thought a balanced diet is better for humans and dogs, although I know that people and dogs eat all sorts of things. The thing that sticks in my mind is that elderly dogs and especially those with bad digestive systems are supposed to be on a lower or low protein diet, so eating only chicken or sardines isn't ideal.

When I asked the vet about a BARF diet soon after taking over the care of this dog following as suggestion by another forum member a couple of years ago, the vet was very clear that it was inappropriate for this particular dog. I know there are believers in it, but I don't pay the vet for her care, expertise and advice to then ignore it. That is why I said the BARF diet was specifically excluded.

The dog won't eat cottage cheese, and was really ill when given some cheddar recently, so I'm pretty sure she's not able to digest dairy products. She's turned her pretty little nose up at eggs, too.

What I'm looking for is flavours that will tempt her and not do her any further harm. She's old, arthriticky, has a malignant growth on her back and she's determined, absolutely determined to keep going. (She behaves like a puppy when she's walked up to five times a day.) I'd like to make what time she's got left as pleasurable as possible, and feeling as though she's got a mildly but permanently upset tummy or the runs can't be much fun for her.

I can go on shoving a multi-vitamin and mineral pill into her every week, but what she needs is food that she likes that does her some good.

getthemax

I had this problem with my previous old boy, drove me round the bend and it was a constant worry.

I took on an oldie BC in September, probably around 12 years old, and his guts were in a bad way, very loose and not a normal colour, almost grey.

Our other BC is on Burns Lamb and Rice and we tried him on that, but after a few days he was back to being very loose and squitty.

In desperation we put him on Burns Duck and Rice as that's supposed to be good for sensitive stomachs and we haven't looked back. His stools are solid and he loves it. We actually add the Burns mixer as well in about 25% ratio to the normal food, and add hot water and let it soak to a stodgy mix, and sometimes add a small amount of vegetables like a small boiled potato.

You may have already tried Burns but if you haven't tried their Duck and rice I'd give it a go, it may just work for you.

krlyr

But dogs are not humans and have a different digestive system. All a horse generally eats is grass and hay, but we wouldn't thrive on that sort of diet. Different animals have different nutritional needs.
The thought that low protein diets are needed for elderly dogs is something that has been questioned many times, especially after a trial was done on low protein diets vs high - the dogs on the high protein diet actually outlived those on the low protein diet. It is the quality of the protein that is more important, to avoid strain on the kidneys.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/protein-requirements-senior-dogs-you-might-be-surprised
http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjseniordiets.html
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/low-protein-dog-foods/

I trust my vet to give me advise on medical matters, but like I do not go to them for behavioural advice, I take their nutritional advice at face value too. Only a small part of their studying is focused on nutrition, and often this is sponsored by large commercial food companies like Hills or Royal Canin. My vet doesn't really say much either way about me feeding raw, they know I've done my research and they know my dogs are healthy. Many vets do not know much on the subject and some are very anti-raw-feeding for whatever reason.

Some people believe that grains can aggravate arthritis in dogs too - another reason why the fish and potato diet may actually be better for her than you think.

You're entitled to your opinion on raw - if you don't want to feed raw then it doesn't bother me one bit, I know it doesn't suit every owner, or every dog, but I would suggest doing some research outside of what your vet tells you. If nothing else, then new studies come about since vets leave their studies and if they don't have a personal interest in reading the latest papers, trials, etc. they may genuinely not know that the general opinion has shifted slightly.

Honey_Bear

Thank you for the suggestions, both of you.

I'd be really, really grateful if this thread doesn't go down the To Barf or not To Barf. She's not going on the Barf diet, and I have researched it.

I'm looking for suggestions for vegetables and carbohydrates, and any suggestions about dog food preparations that suit other people's dogs with hyper-sensitive stomachs.

z.n

Given the age of the dog I wonder if it is getting near 'that' time when decisions have to be made. It may be her body telling her enough is enough. I have seen this voracious appetite give way to a gradual withdrawal from food by an elderly cat (I hand fed chicken and white fish for about three months) and later an elderly relative simply went off food for a month or two before she died.
In hindsight, when the appetite went, I think they were getting ready to go.

Forcing an animal or person to eat when they really don't want to is very stressful and I found my need to nurture was pretty powerful making it all a bit of a battleground. However, I now think that it is sometimes worth taking a step back and letting the animal/person decide for themselves?

krlyr

Honey_Bear wrote: »

Thank you for the suggestions, both of you.

I'd be really, really grateful if this thread doesn't go down the To Barf or not To Barf. She's not going on the Barf diet, and I have researched it.

I'm looking for suggestions for vegetables and carbohydrates, and any suggestions about dog food preparations that suit other people's dogs with hyper-sensitive stomachs.

I'm not saying it has to be a BARF diet (and I have stated in both my other posts that you don't have to go down this route) but research the ideal diet for elderly dogs in general, because newer studies have contradicted the low protein idea.
Whether this is in the form of BARF/raw, home cooked, commercial wet food, commercial dry - that's up to you, like I said, I don't believe everyone has to feed raw or that it's the best diet for every dog, but you've found a food that kind of works (the chicken and fish) and you're ruling it out based on older opinions, perhaps with/on the advice of a vet who may not have studied further on diet since their veterinary training - which would only briefly cover nutrition anyway.

You're also dismissing the idea of supplements - it may be worth bearing in mind that most of the 'goodness' from commercial foods comes from additional supplementation anyway, since the processing can take away a fair bit of the ingredient's nutrients, so really you're just skipping out the middle man. You could always look at some of the supplement pastes if you don't want to give tablets, e.g. Nutrical (calorie supplement too so good if a dog's not eating much and losing weight)

If it were my dog and the chicken and fish were suiting her and she ate it, I'd be feeding her that and perhaps just giving her the odd supplement to make sure she wasn't deficient in anything that the diet may not provide.

The last dogs I had through old age reached the stage where they had little appetite and we just fed them whatever they would eat and could tolerate without really worrying about the longterm effects. To be frank about it, you may not really have to consider the longterm effects of an unbalanced diet in an eldery dog. I would worry less about how to get her to eat foods she doesn't want to eat and concentrate more on getting her to eat whatever she will accept, regardless.

Honey_Bear

To put it succinctly, as there appear to be some misunderstandings, the dog will only eat chicken or sardines. She regularly rejects food she has eaten with gusto and I am more than a little concerned that I am going to RUN OUT OF OPTIONS. I am trying to increase the variety in her diet so that I CAN GET SOME GRUB INTO HER without upsetting her extremely delicate stomach.

Please could posters stop telling me I am wrong, misguided or uninformed about information I have stated in the Opening Post. She gets bored with sardines on occasion and has to go over to 100% chicken, which she then gets bored with, rather understandably. At that stage, at the moment I am left with white chocolate or sugar lumps (which she won't eat this morning, but that's okay because she will later), both of which I think are not that helpful in terms of nutrition.

I am very aware that she is not long for this world, but everyone thought that three years ago and through extremely careful care and a fantastic vet's expertise, she's happy, bouncy and full of life. All the arrangements for her terminal management are in place and I'd like to ensure she continues to have a fabulous time until that day.

Has anyone fed a dog cooked, mashed parsnips as a filler? That's the kind of thing I'd be interested in knowing. She absolutely loved cooked mashed sweet potato with her boiled white fish for weeks, but won't touch it any more.

Katiehound

Will the dog eat anything raw? I was going to suggest grated carrot which my dogs adore (but then they like just about everything!) Also grated apple

I was also going to suggest a couple of teaspoons of slippery elm food is good for delicate tums. I usually mix with a Tsp of live yoghurt (but you hinted dairy might be a problem.) If you can get Slippery Elm powder (rather than food, which contains wheat) that would probably be better- very good for 'the runs'

What about rabbit? We used to feed dogs with that years (and years) ago... now sure if it is available.


Lots of luck on your quest

Pthree

Scrambled Egg

Porridge made with water

Pasta or rice with tuna / sardines

Little bit of poached fish (any kind, you can pick up frozen coley (?? I think) rather cheaply.

Towards the end my old boy loved nothing more than a bowl of half soggy cornflakes / rice crispies although these days they say cows milk isnt good so may be worth checking with your vet.

Cruciferous veg can be hard for dogs to digest but well cooked and a mushed up a bit should be ok.
I would be aware the sweet potato, parsnips etc are high glycemic so try and mix them with something else if you can as you dont want to mess around with blood sugar too much if he's a bit poorly anyway.