Damp in the Flat Below - Legality and Responsibility to Fix

srattray

Hi,

First post - my apologies if I'm not following convention ....

I live in on the top floor of a block of flats - 3 stories high. I privately own the property.

The property below ours (2nd floor) as a serious damp/condensation problem. The damp runs along the entire length of the west facing walls (external - two rooms long) and the entire north facing walls (wall-to-wall with another block of flats - three rooms long) i.e. damp/condensation along ~25m of wall - 2 bedrooms, bathroom and sitting room.

Our property and the flat on the 1st floor - have absolutely no trace of damp/condensation. (Both properties have white walls through out - easy to spot damp)

Environmental health is involved and has stated that there is normal and abnormal damp.

Normal: Condensation. They too many people staying the property, they aren't ventilating correctly and they are drying clothes etc .. within the flat. They have dehumidifiers in the property to fix this now, and superficially - this is creating the most mess of their walls.

Abnoral: Some of the water in their property, they say, is not coming from condensation, and currently they think it might be coming from my place. Specifically - they have identified that the patch of wall below our external overflow pipe is damp but not running during the day (i.e. the overflow has been running - presumably either when we shower in the morning or during the night when the water pressure is higher)

They have stated that at this stage they are not compelling us to get a plumber out to fix the problem, but they do have the power to do this if a resolution cannot be found.

Questions:

1. Responsibility for tracing a leak. Who pays for this, given that it doesn't impact my property? Can i claim my home insurance?
2. Responsibillty. I assume if we're found at fault - we pay for it? What if no fault is found in our system?
3. (More just for internest) What powers do Env Health have to compel me to do something about this.
4. Negligence. Now I've been made aware of the issue (or I will in writting in the next few days), do I have to take action immediately to avoid a negligence claim?

NB: This is in Scotland. (Aware laws may be different here)
NB2: We're probably going to get the plumber out in the next week to investigate.

Many thanks,
Stew.

macman

It's almost certainly the WC ballcock not closing fully. If not flushed overnight it's continuing to fill the cistern and eventually discharges via the overflow pipe. In the daytime and in use it never gets full enough to reach the overflow. Nothing to do with showers or water pressure.
Fix it yourself, or a 20 minute job for a plumber.

phill99

As macman says.

You are responsible for identifying and fixing the leak. Just because it doesn't affect your property is irrelevant.

Up won't be able to claim on your insurance for fixing the leak, but your insurers may have to pay for the damage to the downstairs flat.

macman

The excess on your insurance would be far more than the cost of fixing it yourself.
If you leave it dripping, then the other tenants can take a civil action against you for damages, so just get it fixed.
Tie it up overnight in the meantime.

srattray

Okay ... and update.

So it was stated that the external overflow pipe was leaking. We're 3 floors up - so reaching it was a real problem. However, toilet paper and a broom handle - and we could reach the pipe. We tested the pipe at 0730 & 1830 without the central heating running or the toilet having been flushed. Pipe was dry. We tested again itermittently while running the heating and flushing the toilet for 3 hrs between 1830 and 2230. The pipe was always dry. We repeated this process for the last 1.5 days. We cannot find any evidence of the overflow running. The toilet paper is completely dry.

1. The overflow in the cistern disposes of overflow water down the pan. (Giberet duoflush type). So no use of the external overflow here.
2. We don't have either hot or cold water tanks. So no use of the overflow here either.
3. That leaves the combi boiler. My understanding is that the combi boiler will make use of the overflow in one situation only - the pressure overflow valve is activated and/or faulty. In either situation - the pressure in our central heating system would be dropping and we would need to be filling back up by means of the filling loop. We've not had to use the filling loop in over 12 months.

Are we missing anything - is there anything else in the property that could be using the overflow?

The plumber we have spoken to has stated that the next step would be start lifting carpets and floor boards and looking for a leaking pipe. From either the property below (damp/condensation problem) or our place.

What is the correct next course of action? We cannot find any evidence of this pipe leaking onto the external brick work of the building (and will continue to test through the wknd). Should the property below be engaging the building insurance and coming through them via, presumably, a provision to trace a leak?

Stew.

southcoastrgi

are you sure it's your o/flow & not your neighbours that has been run outside your flat ? Do you still have the old overflow connected to your wc (even though it now goes into the pan) ?

macman

Can you actually see the overflow pipe outside that is allegedly leaking?/ If so, it should be a moment's work to pick up where it comes indoors and deduce what it is fed from. The construction of the pipe should give it away-a PRV overflow from a combi will be in 15mm copper. A WC cistern overflow will usually be in plastic waste pipe, etc etc.

Fire_Fox

Since you are in Scotland are these freehold flats? Are the downstairs residents tenants or owner occupiers? Buildings insurers are generally there for issues like accidental damage not failure to maintain the property so they may not be the most appropriate agency. Given that the damp is the full length of a wall encompassing several types of rooms maybe an independent timber and damp specialist should be called in (NOT a damp proof course company). Has the DPC been bridged? Could there be a leak in a pipe/ drain close to the base of the wall?