New kitchens costs - Opinions please

ryder72

Hello cyclonebri

I hear your comment about amount of designing required. Quite often its not necessarily the time but the experience gained and having the product with the features that make the small differences between 'boxes on walls' and well designed. You say you are an engineer and I am sure you designed stuff, diagnosed and managed problems and yet you charged or were paid more money with your experience. What was being paid for was your expertise. I dont mean this in a derogatory way, as I am an engineer too and worked in manufacturing for several years so I think I can say with some degree of confidence that I understand engineering. I still maintain a keen interest in manufacturing and my often repeated comments about German manufacturing do not just come out of sheer awe of seeing large factories operate - it is down to appreciation of the quality, precision and attitude. I could go on but this isnt the thread for this discussion.

An additional point of reference for what its worth - most kitchens come with what a 20-30 page catalogue of units? A quality kitchen catalogue will run into several hundred pages and a good designer should have a deep understanding of their product to be able to incorporate the most suitable items into a design. Surely this is down to ability which I think is why there are designers and then there are designers.

I dont think anyone here is justifying spending silly amounts of money, but being money saving isnt about buying the cheapest item. I think its about buying quality as well and getting best possible value.

A £3k Howdens kitchen is about as good value as a high-end £15k German kitchen loaded with design features. At their price point they offer value for money. Its the Howdens kitchen that gets sold for £5k or a kitchen from the shed that gets sold for £8k or indeed the high end kitchen that gets sold for £25k that I think is the problem.

keystone

Kitchen_fitter wrote: »

I joined the forum recently and have posted a few replies that may be helpful. In this case look at Cut price Kitchens for you kitchen and worktops etc as they are the same as Tesco and Wickes but much cheaper. Good local trades can be found on Trust a trader and other trusted trader sites and if you are fairly organised you can use local trades and get a better job done for a lot less money. You may be able to save the VAT on the labour as a lot of small businesses don't charge VAT if theri turnover on labour isn't too high

Indeed welcome to the forum. I was just wondering (as you do) whether there was any significance in your being from Wiltshire and the supplier you mention is in Devizes which is in - Wiltshire?

Trusted trader sites? Nah! With the exception of those operated in conjunction with local TS they are a pay-to-join-and-stay club. Zero value IMHO.

Also sorry to be picky but the VAT threshold is measured on total turnover for the business on a rolling basis not just the labour element.

Cheers

keystone

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

That was the 1 bit I was going to pick up on.

Actually it isn't that expensive because its the whole room in effect less about 2 foot six above the floor on three of the walls. Bearing in mind the spread also has to deal with two (probably) doors and at least one window then its actually about what I would expect from a decent plasterer.

Cheers

cyclonebri1

keystone wrote: »

Actually it isn't that expensive because its the whole room in effect less about 2 foot six above the floor on three of the walls. Bearing in mind the spread also has to deal with two (probably) doors and at least one window then its actually about what I would expect from a decent plasterer.

Cheers

It's way too much in my neck of the woods, and you have to ask as I did, just what is he going to do, a skim over or hack the lot off, missed the answer if the op posted back,;)

cyclonebri1

ryder72 wrote: »

Hello cyclonebri

I hear your comment about amount of designing required. Quite often its not necessarily the time but the experience gained and having the product with the features that make the small differences between 'boxes on walls' and well designed. You say you are an engineer and I am sure you designed stuff, diagnosed and managed problems and yet you charged or were paid more money with your experience. What was being paid for was your expertise. I dont mean this in a derogatory way, as I am an engineer too and worked in manufacturing for several years so I think I can say with some degree of confidence that I understand engineering. I still maintain a keen interest in manufacturing and my often repeated comments about German manufacturing do not just come out of sheer awe of seeing large factories operate - it is down to appreciation of the quality, precision and attitude. I could go on but this isnt the thread for this discussion.

An additional point of reference for what its worth - most kitchens come with what a 20-30 page catalogue of units? A quality kitchen catalogue will run into several hundred pages and a good designer should have a deep understanding of their product to be able to incorporate the most suitable items into a design. Surely this is down to ability which I think is why there are designers and then there are designers.

I dont think anyone here is justifying spending silly amounts of money, but being money saving isnt about buying the cheapest item. I think its about buying quality as well and getting best possible value.

A £3k Howdens kitchen is about as good value as a high-end £15k German kitchen loaded with design features. At their price point they offer value for money. Its the Howdens kitchen that gets sold for £5k or a kitchen from the shed that gets sold for £8k or indeed the high end kitchen that gets sold for £25k that I think is the problem.

Nice post, and a good answer to my questioning the value of design in the kichen.

Nice to keep a balance perspective, your views and additions along with everyone elses are all needed to keep things "even":T

cyclonebri1

keystone wrote: »

Actually it isn't that expensive because its the whole room in effect less about 2 foot six above the floor on three of the walls. Bearing in mind the spread also has to deal with two (probably) doors and at least one window then its actually about what I would expect from a decent plasterer.

Cheers

It's way too much in my neck of the woods, and you have to ask as I did, just what is he going to do, a skim over or hack the lot off, missed the answer if the op posted back,;)

I genuinely feel that this is an area the op should keep separate from the rest of the job as there are savings to be made here.

Leif

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

It's way too much in my neck of the woods, and you have to ask as I did, just what is he going to do, a skim over or hack the lot off, missed the answer if the op posted back,;)

keystone is in the land where the pavements are covered in gold, whereas you are in "a fool and his money are soon parted" land (1). There is a difference. Where is the OP?

(1) "Where there's much there's brass", "Look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves", and so on.

cyclonebri1

Leif wrote: »

keystone is in the land where the pavements are covered in gold, whereas you are in "a fool and his money are soon parted" land (1). There is a difference. Where is the OP?

(1) "Where there's much there's brass", "Look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves", and so on.

Yes, but it's "where there's muck there's money", subtle but different in a few ways:D:D:D


It is about location and it catches me out every time.

No, I take that back, it just highlights how easily soft southerners are parted from their hard earned, :o:D:D:D

Sits back and awaits, with flak jacket donned

keystone

Leif wrote: »

keystone is in the land where the pavements are covered in gold,

Sometimes Leif you post the strangest things. Please allow me to know what it costs for a good plasterer to do a good professional job in my region over two days rather than someone who just slaps one coat on for a couple of hundred quid elsewhere in the country. Plastering is an art (I can't do it and probably never will.) A good plasterer is worth his weight in gold.

Thank you.

Cheers

keystone

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

It is about location and it catches me out every time.

Thats most likely correct. I won't pay jack the lad to do slap it up plastering for 150 in his back pocket though. It costs me in the long run and needs doing properly. OPs job is, in effect, whether you like it or not a complete room. Somewhere in the £400 - £500 over region is a good max price for a complete room. Don't forget for a good result it needs two top coats as well.

No, I take that back, it just highlights how easily soft southerners are parted from their hard earned, :o:D:D:D

Up to that point you were doing quite well. Now you've gone and ruined it by just being a in flame mode. Never mind.

Sits back and awaits, with flak jacket donned

I should keep it on old son if this is how you are going today. No I have no intention of indulging in a long exchange of posts going into minutae either on this one.

Cheers