Our dog keeping us awake - any help please?

Crisp_£_note

Hi we have 2 dogs (Male Greyhound x Salukie coming up to aged 9 in Oct & Male Lurcher x Collie coming up to aged 10 in October).

For a while now he has been wanting to get out into the garden at night. First of all it was to see what was out there, he would 'cat and fox patrol' through the bungalow with the other dog. Until eventualu settling down. If we did let them out they wouldnt do anything other than sniff around the garden until called repetitively to get back indoors.

We put a baby gate on the conservatry which we closed at night to prevent them getting to the back door to look through the window. This worked for a few weeks but then we found they would just go to the gate and look through the bars. So we drape a bath towel over the gate at night to stop their view. Again this worked for a couple of weeks but they agitated even more to get into the garden after we went to bed.

So we fitted a door to the kitchen (opposite side to baby gate) and closed this at night as well as the baby gate and towel to stop them peeking through. Again this worked for a few weeks but as the door is right outside our bedroom (due to the layout of the small bungalow we live in) the dog will just squeak outside our bedroom door. We used to have a babygate across our bedroom door so we could leave it open at night to allow air to circulate but we ended up shutting the door at night now to try and ignore the dog outside it.

I admit the dogs have calmed their cat patol behaviour / what was that noise must investigate! an awful lot, due to the fact we now peg the curtains shut in the front room so they cant look outside. They do also go to the toilet at least twice throught the nights let outs schedule.

Well here is where the problem has got us too now as after a few months we have now had enough of the dog pestering to go out into the garden every night and it has escalated to not just once a night but several times throught it !!!!

Usualy it is me who gets up to let them out (being fair to my husband he works and gets up early and I dont), I dont mind doing it once, perhaps twice even some nights a week but now I no sorry WE have both had enough of the whole thing.

However my point here is they used to go through the night no trouble without going out or if they were desparate they would alert us.

Another thing I noted is they do drink quite a bit of water but I have put this down to the central heating being on the past few months. I was contemplating removing their water after a certain tine at night but thought this was unacceotable?? However the night time routine has been going on a lot longer.

Its escalated to 3 or 4 times a night and Last night it was about 6 times. Today we are both very tired and irritable. I realise they are both aging in years but we dont go to bed until at least 11pm (due to another problem with neighbours) so they get a long let out for the last time late at night anyway and as I said I dont mind getting up to let them out once to break up the night, (especialy as I do anyhow myself).

Also last night, our other dog pined as if he wants someone to sit up with him a while. So to keep him quiet I did but I dont want this to escalate into another game of unwanted behaviour either!

Anyhow I would prefer to try and solve it without a trip to vets for a few weeks at least as there doesnt appear to be anything physicaly wrong so I just know a trip to the vet will bring a blood test examination and extra fees probably unnessesary right now. Im not mean and dont want to sound cruel but I know my dogs.

Anyone any advice please?

Many thanks.

krlyr

I'm unsure from your post if there's one dog that's particularly worse about it or if they're as bad as each other?

From the start of your post I thought it was one - in which case I was going to suggest something like canine dementia. One of the first symptoms can be restlessness at night, and the dog asking to go outside a lot. Often they don't sleep much overnight, they're easily disorientated, and they often forget that they've just been outside.

It could be that one dog is setting off the other, but I think it would be quite a fluke for both dogs (although of a similar age) to both develop this issue at the same time. If it was the both of them, I would be wondering more about an environmental trigger such as a noise in the garden (perhaps a new cat in the neighbour that's taken a fancy to your garden, or some wildlife that's taken up residence) or perhaps just become a habit.

I wouldn't take water up at night - imagine not being able to fetch a drink if you felt thirsty in the night, the dogs don't have the option of fetching their own, so I feel they need permanent access so they can drink when needed. And if nothing else, you may counteract what you're trying to achieve, if the dogs realise the bowl comes up at, say, 9pm, they may drink their fill at 8.30 and end up needing the toilet more than if they'd just had a sip here and there. Dogs often look to drink more than they do, just because of the way they drink, but if they do seem to be drinking a noticably larger quantity than usual then that in itself might warrant a vet trip.

I think if it were me then I would probably be reading up on the symptoms of canine dementia and seeing if anything else fitted in with either of their behaviour.
I'd be trying to break the habit of toilet breaks, so slowly cutting down on the amount you offer during the night, and also encouraging them to settle when you go up to bed.
If they're food-orientated and safe to leave together with Kongs, you could try pre-preparing a few Kongs before bedtime and leaving them down with the dogs as you go up. Not completely full, but small amounts (lessen their daily meals to make up for it), preferably something like wet food so it's a bit more challenging. Not only will this occupy them, but licking and chewing releases endorphins that relax a dog too. I would also reward any absences during the day - so if you pop to the loo, out to the bin, etc., reward your exit with lightly smeared Kongs or a scattering of treats/food as you go out the door. It only took a few days of this routine before my dog calmed down, having been waking us up several times in the night whining or barking after we moved house (just one symptom of the separation anxiety she started suffering)

I'd perhaps leave a radio on for background noise incase they can hear something outside, so they focus less on that, and consider DAP/Adaptil plugins or similar calmative products to help them to settle.

I would perhaps give this a timeframe before considering further investigation at the vet. Having dealt with what I thought was purely a behavioural issue myself last year, I do kick myself a bit now it's been diagnosed as having a medical cause (hypothyroidism which causes anxiety) behind it, I wish I'd had it checked out a bit sooner!

GlasweJen

If your back garden is escape proof you could install one of those doggy car flaps so that the dogs can let themselves out?

Crisp_£_note

krlyr wrote: »

I'm unsure from your post if there's one dog that's particularly worse about it or if they're as bad as each other? Its 1 dog thats worse. The Lurcher X.

From the start of your post I thought it was one - in which case I was going to suggest something like canine dementia. One of the first symptoms can be restlessness at night, and the dog asking to go outside a lot. Often they don't sleep much overnight, they're easily disorientated, and they often forget that they've just been outside. They do settle in between. But will note to have it checked if it persists. They both have small dog blankets smelling of us which are left with them for comfort.

It could be that one dog is setting off the other, but I think it would be quite a fluke for both dogs (although of a similar age) to both develop this issue at the same time. The other dog can sometimes disturb by pestering to sleep where Lurcher is but they wont sleep together as Lurcher doesnt like it. Greyhound does it for company and warmth I think.
If it was the both of them, I would be wondering more about an environmental trigger such as a noise in the garden (perhaps a new cat in the neighbour that's taken a fancy to your garden, or some wildlife that's taken up residence) or perhaps just become a habit. I have wondered recently if it is triggered by next doors noise (long ongoing problem we are seeking to resolve through council antisocial behaviour team) or a flagpole in an adjacent garden - which I can hear in the quiet night stillness!

I wouldn't take water up at night - imagine not being able to fetch a drink if you felt thirsty in the night, the dogs don't have the option of fetching their own, so I feel they need permanent access so they can drink when needed. And if nothing else, you may counteract what you're trying to achieve, if the dogs realise the bowl comes up at, say, 9pm, they may drink their fill at 8.30 and end up needing the toilet more than if they'd just had a sip here and there. Dogs often look to drink more than they do, just because of the way they drink, but if they do seem to be drinking a noticably larger quantity than usual then that in itself might warrant a vet trip. No this is why I thought it cruel and could cause more bother like you suggested.

I think if it were me then I would probably be reading up on the symptoms of canine dementia and seeing if anything else fitted in with either of their behaviour. Certainly shall be doing.

I'd be trying to break the habit of toilet breaks, so slowly cutting down on the amount you offer during the night, and also encouraging them to settle when you go up to bed. Shall certainly try our best - hold on just had a bizzarre thought just came to mind I recall it gets worse around a full / new moon if this is significant?!

If they're food-orientated and safe to leave together with Kongs, you could try pre-preparing a few Kongs before bedtime and leaving them down with the dogs as you go up. Not completely full, but small amounts (lessen their daily meals to make up for it), preferably something like wet food so it's a bit more challenging. Not only will this occupy them, but licking and chewing releases endorphins that relax a dog too. I would also reward any absences during the day - so if you pop to the loo, out to the bin, etc., reward your exit with lightly smeared Kongs or a scattering of treats/food as you go out the door. It only took a few days of this routine before my dog calmed down, having been waking us up several times in the night whining or barking after we moved house (just one symptom of the separation anxiety she started suffering) They fight over food so have had to remove treats altogether unless supervised and quick to eat. Their ususaly good otherwise. They do bark when we first leave the house but they settle after a few minutes if we go out, out and leave them alone altogether (rather than in back garden, garage or to eat in another room). Other neighbours say the same. We live in a bungalow due to layout the back door is around the entrance to our bedroom so cant go upstairs at night otherwise would be easier to ignore I suspect.

I'd perhaps leave a radio on for background noise incase they can hear something outside, so they focus less on that, and consider DAP/Adaptil plugins or similar calmative products to help them to settle. The plug ins etc wind them up more, tried them a couple of times. Radio / TV on low doesnt work either.

I would perhaps give this a timeframe before considering further investigation at the vet. Having dealt with what I thought was purely a behavioural issue myself last year, I do kick myself a bit now it's been diagnosed as having a medical cause (hypothyroidism which causes anxiety) behind it, I wish I'd had it checked out a bit sooner!

I certainly shall as last thing I would want is for either to suffer, its ok for me to be sleep deprived as I can deal with it at moment. I was half waiting for you to say stop pamperiong them and go back to basic puppy training and tough love. so THANKS VERY MUCH for the advicevery much appreciated and will give other bits a try.

GlasweJen wrote: »

If your back garden is escape proof you could install one of those doggy car flaps so that the dogs can let themselves out?

Nice idea but just not possible. Garden is secure but its more hassle and not an option. THANKS VERY MUCH for the advice though very much appreciated. Will make a note for future

krlyr

There's quite a lot of calmative products on the market, some that work better than others. I found Adaptil made mine worse, too, but I do think there was some success with Zylkene and Calmex (both oral supplements for anxiety). Other products include Stressless, KalmAid Pet Remedy, skullcap and/or valerian supplements, a Thundershirt (though these are more for supervised use), to name a few.
If it is something like canine dementia, there are products on the market that increase bloodflow to the brain - not a cure as such, but a relief from the symptoms and a slow down of the progression.

Another condition worse looking at as well as the dementia could be thyroid problems, such as hypothyroidism (more common than hyperthyroidism which tends to be seen more in cats). An underactive thyroid can cause a range of symptoms, physically and behaviourally - Kiki showed more of the behavioural symptoms before the physical symptoms but some of the signs can be so subtle you wouldn't really notice them day-to-day. Some vets aren't all that up to scratch on hypothyroidism so it can require a bit of pushing to get the appropriate tests for it (a simple TSH test may not be accurate, you need to test as many of the levels as possible - T3, T4, free T3, free T4 and tgAA if possible) and also know how to interpret the results (Dr Jean Dodds is a US vet with a personal interest in thyroid issues and believes the ideal range varies from dog to dog, so simply going by one set range on paper may cause a missed diagnosis in a dog that is in the lower end of the range - this certainly proved to be the case with Kiki and with many other dogs I've heard about, and even many cases in humans)

It could also be worth a vet check to rule out pain that could be worse at night, e.g when the house gets cooler and he's been laying still for longer.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Dogs-701/2009/11/Anxiety-night-senior-dog.htm

Crisp_£_note

Thanks think I will give it until beginnning of March (so a couple more weeks see if I can ween ourselves from getting up) then make him an appointment with vet for check up if no changes. Better safe than sorry as you say. Im all too aware of his age and although I have had dogs most of my life this one just seems to be the one I have bonded with most so scared of having to lose him go through with it. Other than the expense of vet we do have pet insurance with AFI but its basic accident only so wouldnt cover anything like the illness would it?? Hope its something and nothing as sounds expensive future but worth every penny if I can keep them longer so long as they not in pain suffereing or owt.

Thanks.

dizziblonde

We go through it periodically with our greyhound - she'll have a bout of dodgy tum for a few days and will obviously want to be out then, but then she seems to have got a pattern of going for a quick nighttime wander and we'll have a good few weeks of wake ups and melodramatic wimpering to get out - go out, have a quick tour of the garden and come bounding back to bed. Vet's found nothing to be an obvious cause of it.

The only thing we've found that works and reduces it back to the level of genuinely needed-outs only is to confine her slightly - almost in a crate, but since we don't have space for one - she sleeps on a bed by my husband's side of the bed, and he pulls the drawers that come after that open so it's slightly enclosed - that seems to work and reduces it back down to a minimum.

The other thing that causes it a bit for ours is the cold. Obviously ours is a pure grey and you've got a mix of sighthound crosses there but I found hound pyjamas worked a bit as well.

It's been more of a battle getting the dog to sleep through the night than the baby!

ellies_angel

Could you not try letting them sleep in your room. When out eldest was alive she went through this, drove me nuts I was up and down all night, I ended up sleeping downstairs on the sofa in the family room (their bed was there) I soon realised it was us she wanted and took her bed up to our room and she slept all night. Problem solved and I slept all night too!!

Hintza

Age.

We have an elderly Border Terrier and she has started similar, at times worse than others. We try and counter it by putting her out late for quite a longish time just before bed.

lionheartedgirl

I've had similar issues with my 7 year old boy greyhound recently. No idea what caused it as he had always slept well previously. To start with I had assumed it was my girl hound as she is more nervous but over Christmas, realised who the culprit was! :mad:

He was pacing in the night and would often start whining at the same time every morning (about 5!) and wouldn't go back to sleep. I had to give in and get up as I was worried about the whole street getting woken up!

I've been through everything with the vets - even tried sedating him to try and get him back in the habit of sleeping through. When this didn't work, I had a re-think. I didn't want to increase his dosage any more and felt upset that I had even contemplated it but I really was sooo tired!

A couple of weeks ago, I went on the assault and started ignoring him when he whined. I have a lamp downstairs and have set it on a timer (6am, when I get up most days). I also set my alarm which rings at 6am, the hope was that he would see the light come on, hear the alarm and me getting out of bed and make the connection that it was time to get up. I get up at 6 every day now, it's worth it if he sleeps through and I go back to bed some days if I don't need to stay up!

He has been much better. A couple of nights he's gone right through, and the rest of the time he's woken much later, had a little squeak and managed to get himself back to sleep.

We tried Zylkene (no effect), the Adaptil collar (interesting that someone else above has mentioned it made him worse as I thought this at the time but couldn't believe it!), Serene-UMM, and him wearing one of my old tshirts. I tried walking him more (although being a greyhound he shouldn't need much exercise, and he gets plenty anyway!) too. Nothing worked for more than a night.

A radio had made a big difference initially - had it on R4 to start with but in the vets, he was startling at the credit card machine beeping so I tried changing it (because of the hourly time pips on R4!). Now he has Classic FM instead :rotfl:

It's been a very trying time but we do seem to be turning the corner. He has a friend (my other greyhound!) so the vets have been clueless having exhausted all the normal channels.

I can't have him upstairs - he is frightened of stairs and too big to carry! PLus there would be no bed or room for me with 2 big dogs on the bed/floor! :rotfl:

I feel for you OP and I hope you get it sorted soon X

Better_Off_1983

We have a 2 year old American Bulldog and he is our first dog.

My mum has a Parson's terrier, she sleeps in a large cage with a sheet over her cage - then she will know its bed and quiet time.

We do that with our dog and we do not hear a peep from him for the whole night. He hardly barks during the day, the only time he will is if he sees a fly in the house (during the summer).

When we put the dog in the cage (very large) he knows its quiet time, so he knows not to whinge, whimper or yelp.

I would not allow our dog to be in our bedroom, downstairs is for the pets (we have a dog and a cat), all you need to do is give him a piece of your clothing with your scent on there and they will get used to the fact that you have not abandoned them, so they will not pine for you as such.