What should the UK energy policy for the next 25 years+be

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hiya, assuming we're still talking hybrids, then the 'debugged' bit makes me think Prius?

Our little Meriva is nearly 9 years old. We've been talking about a replacement for a few years, but the ugly little compromise has totally won us over. She can carry so much! Disliked it at first due to the extra complexity and weight of a clever seating system that can go from 5 seats to 4!!! But seating aside, very much function over form.

Really fancy something like the plug in Prius, as Wifey works about 4 miles away, in stop and go traffic, so the 12 mile range would suit well .... but will need to be 4 or 5 years old before it gets anywhere near our price range (spent all our cash on PV ).

Ohhh, could be a Honda, but I've lost track of the UK hybrid market, so will stick with Toyota, and zero down to a Prius if pushed?

Mart.

Hi

Prius plug-in is exactly the same drivetrain as the standard Pruis, so it's fully proved in my mind .... the Honda Insight was found to be awkward to get into/out of and there were also loads of other 'niggles' .... the Ampera, really great - but unless sales & manufacturing volumes pick-up soon you could end up with a limited-run experiment. The car costs well over double it's selling price to put together, so just consider the cost of spares .... The Leaf, well that would be okay if we were in the city and/or wanted to run a second car for real-world journeys, but we had real trouble planning a route around the limited charge points which are currently available .... 3008 & DS5 hybrids, try them out and see what real-world mpg you get, so why bother ? ... Lexus CT200, well it's just another 1.8litre Toyota hybrid with an additional 'premium' badge and little else .... Auris, seemed to be too basic for the price, might as well have the 'real thing' ... Yaris, really liked, quite surprising, but a little smaller than we wanted (elderly relatives, wheelchair/walkers etc) ......

The only car which met expectation was the Prius, the only one which exceeded it was the Prius plug-in .....

Sorry if this offends anyone with any of the above vehicles, but after testing them all, it's our own decision, based on our own requirements, using our own money ....

HTH
Z

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

How about the Hummer hybrid?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/money/hummer-produce-hybrid-h3-company-100-miles-gallon-article-1.195966

Hi

No, missed that one ... don't even know where the local dealership is. Similar position on the 787, which looks like a good call considering the problems they've had with the batteries! :D

Anyway, one of the main reasons for changing is the ease of access .... MrsZ currently has a Disco which is pretty awkward for elderly relatives with mobility issues .... so needed something lower with decent rear legroom etc.

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

The only car which met expectation was the Prius, the only one which exceeded it was the Prius plug-in .....

HTH
Z

Lucky guess!

I think I find the PiP (Plug in Prius - not sure if that'll fly?) very interesting, especially as my first reaction was 'what's the point?'. Then it twigged that 12(ish) miles is a very handy distance when you start to think about lots of trips. Plus all the little trips do the majority of wear and tear on the ICE when cold, and oil is thicker and possibly mainly in the sump.

So it's definitely grown on me.

No idea anymore where cars are going. Petrol and diesel is getting so expensive. The latest diesel engines have practically wiped out the city diesel as a concept with their dpf's.

LNG and CNG are interesting, especially the later with millions in operation.

Full electrics just can't cut it outside of city driving.

Hydrogen fuel cells, too expensive, prices falling, but concerns over life expectancy.

All electric hybrids like the Volt, nice idea but so expensive.

Hybrids (no offence) best of both worlds, but price includes both worlds too.

So can't guess the future of cars, maybe there won't be a winner, just a mix, with a smaller percentage of ICE's than at present.

New games for you to play - can you avoid charging 'PiP' from 5-7pm? And, how often will it be around during PV time?

Actually, on that note, what rate of charge does it take (kW's) and how many kWh's is a full charge (from fake empty to fake full)?

Mart (so, so nosey).

grahamc2003

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Prius plug-in is exactly the same drivetrain as the standard Pruis, so it's fully proved in my mind .... the Honda Insight was found to be awkward to get into/out of and there were also loads of other 'niggles' .... the Ampera, really great - but unless sales & manufacturing volumes pick-up soon you could end up with a limited-run experiment. The car costs well over double it's selling price to put together, so just consider the cost of spares .... The Leaf, well that would be okay if we were in the city and/or wanted to run a second car for real-world journeys, but we had real trouble planning a route around the limited charge points which are currently available .... 3008 & DS5 hybrids, try them out and see what real-world mpg you get, so why bother ? ... Lexus CT200, well it's just another 1.8litre Toyota hybrid with an additional 'premium' badge and little else .... Auris, seemed to be too basic for the price, might as well have the 'real thing' ... Yaris, really liked, quite surprising, but a little smaller than we wanted (elderly relatives, wheelchair/walkers etc) ......

The only car which met expectation was the Prius, the only one which exceeded it was the Prius plug-in .....

Sorry if this offends anyone with any of the above vehicles, but after testing them all, it's our own decision, based on our own requirements, using our own money ....

HTH
Z

I'm sure you'll be pleased with the plugin. I've had my wife's Prius for almost 6 years now, a year old when we bought it - let me down twice in that time, both the 12v battery running too low by having the radio on but not the ignition, so mainly my fault. The only non-scheduled maintenance was the water pump at 70k miles, £300. So cheap luxuryish motoring. This week clocked up 100,000 miles, so the guarantee is no more. Overall 53mpg - it varies quite a bit summer and winter. It's magnificent engineering, and to my mind, Toyota are the only company to have cracked the hybrid technology - all others are miles behind and suffer serious conceptual drawbacks imv.

The efficiency doesn't stop many thinking the Prius is worse for the environment than a Hummer - no idea why that is, and frankly I've given up trying to fathom what goes on inside a green head (yep, it's green groups who think that!). I'd probably get a plugin if our schoolrun days weren't coming to an end - the thought of an electric only run is quite seductive, although very cold of course on a winter's morning. Even my Prius runs the engine all the time if auto climate control is selected and it senses a higher cabin temperature is needed. The plugin may have PTC heaters, but that will quickly deplete the battery charge on a cold morning and fire up the ice.

Have you had a Prius before, or is the pluin the first? Interesting to see what you think of it after a while.

zeupater

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I'm sure you'll be pleased with the plugin. I've had my wife's Prius for almost 6 years now, a year old when we bought it - let me down twice in that time, both the 12v battery running too low by having the radio on but not the ignition, so mainly my fault. The only non-scheduled maintenance was the water pump at 70k miles, £300. So cheap luxuryish motoring. This week clocked up 100,000 miles, so the guarantee is no more. Overall 53mpg - it varies quite a bit summer and winter. It's magnificent engineering, and to my mind, Toyota are the only company to have cracked the hybrid technology - all others are miles behind and suffer serious conceptual drawbacks imv.

The efficiency doesn't stop many thinking the Prius is worse for the environment than a Hummer - no idea why that is, and frankly I've given up trying to fathom what goes on inside a green head (yep, it's green groups who think that!). I'd probably get a plugin if our schoolrun days weren't coming to an end - the thought of an electric only run is quite seductive, although very cold of course on a winter's morning. Even my Prius runs the engine all the time if auto climate control is selected and it senses a higher cabin temperature is needed. The plugin may have PTC heaters, but that will quickly deplete the battery charge on a cold morning and fire up the ice.

Have you had a Prius before, or is the pluin the first? Interesting to see what you think of it after a while.

Agree ... Toyota's experience does seem to show through - It'll take the others a few years to catch-up from what we've seen, but by then Toyota will have hybrid/EV versions of almost their entire range.

No Prius before .... MrsZ's driven loads of business hire cars and knows what she likes, but never a hybrid or EV before now. Moveing from a couple of tonnes of indestructable roadtank as an everyday vehicle to something completely different will be a challenge for a while, especially as it'll be down to me to provide the 're-education' ...

Z

Martyn1981

Speaking of batteries (were we ..... just go with it!)

"Solar Power Day and Night: New Storage Systems Control Fluctuation of Renewable Energies"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120809124611.htm

"Apart from the battery, the key component of the stationary energy storage system is an adapted power electronics unit for charging and discharging the battery within two hours only. Hence, the stationary storage system can be applied as an interim storage system for peak load balancing."

"In spite of the high costs of lithium-ion batteries, this technology may be worthwhile today already, in particular in regions that do not have any stable grids. Smaller and larger islands, for example, are often supplied with electricity by diesel generators. In Africa and India, large areas are not supplied with electricity at all. A photovoltaics system with a coupled lithium-ion battery can be applied profitably, if appropriate system design and load profile are chosen. With decreasing costs of system components, we will achieve "battery parity" in Germany, in analogy to the "grid parity" already reached for photovoltaics-based electricity consumption by the private customer."

Mart.

Martyn1981

Interesting research from the US.

'Wind and Solar Power Paired With Storage Could Power Grid 99.9 Percent of the Time'

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121210133507.htm

"Renewable energy could fully power a large electric grid 99.9 percent of the time by 2030 at costs comparable to today's electricity expenses, according to new research by the University of Delaware and Delaware Technical Community College."

"The study used estimates of technology costs in 2030 without government subsidies, comparing them to costs of fossil fuel generation in wide use today. The cost of fossil fuels includes both the fuel cost itself and the documented external costs such as human health effects caused by power plant air pollution. The projected capital costs for wind and solar in 2030 are about half of today's wind and solar costs, whereas maintenance costs are projected to be approximately the same."

""Aiming for 90 percent or more renewable energy in 2030, in order to achieve climate change targets of 80 to 90 percent reduction of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide from the power sector, leads to economic savings," the authors observe."

Mart.

jonesjw

Electricity 100% nuclear.
Heating by gas.
Use of gas for electricity generation should be banned, as it's a less efficient use of that energy.

PeterZ_2

jonesjw wrote: »

Electricity 100% nuclear.
Heating by gas.
Use of gas for electricity generation should be banned, as it's a less efficient use of that energy.

Disagree with you on the nuclear part, but 100% agree on banning the burning of gas for electricity generation.

We should be saving our gas for heating in homes where it can be used at >90% efficiency.

PeterZ_2

jonesjw wrote: »

Electricity 100% nuclear.
Heating by gas.
Use of gas for electricity generation should be banned, as it's a less efficient use of that energy.

Unfortunately there is a huge flaw in your 100% nuclear plan. Nuclear power plants can not adjust their output quickly enough. They work best if left to run as baseload, we still need something else to cover for peak load.

The demand for electricity varies hugely, currently from around 30GW to 50W in a 24hr period with lots of smaller spikes in between. What happens when there is a sudden increase in demand - for example when everyone puts the kettle on at half time during the footy? Also, what if a nuke goes offline? We need immediate cover for this.

Unless of course you are suggesting we have around 20GW of nukes sitting there as spinning reserve.