What should the UK energy policy for the next 25 years+be

zeupater

spgsc531 wrote: »

You need to get a more up to date google search..

VW Golf Mk7 plug-in hybrid:
combination of a 148bhp 1.4-litre TFSI petrol engine and a 100bhp electric motor for a combined 256lb ft of torque, a 138mph top speed and a 0-62mph sprint time of 7.6sec. According to the official EU test cycle, the Golf achieves 188mpg or a CO2 rating of just 35g/km.
In pure electric mode, the Golf can travel up to 31 miles and has a maximum speed of 81mph.
Audi A3 e-tron has same drivetrain.

Hi

Official EU test cycle ?? ..... for extended range hybrids or EVs with constant speed petrol/diesel generators the serious flaws in the test cycle really do need to be addressed ..... the Ampera has official consumption figures of 235mpg ... :rotfl: and the Prius Plug in around 135mpg ... :rotfl: .... therefore it's simply the bigger the battery, the less petrol or diesel it needs to use on the test cycle .... drive them in full EV mode and there's a theoretical carbon displacement mpg, drive either of them normally for a considerable distance (with the engine running) then it's probably around 60mpg ...

Anyway, thanks for the advice on googling EVs .... I'll pass that onto MrsZ before she presses the EV button on her new toy which she is picking up in a few days time ...

HTH
Z

spgsc531

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Official EU test cycle ?? ..... for extended range hybrids or EVs with constant speed petrol/diesel generators the serious flaws in the test cycle really do need to be addressed ..... the Ampera has official consumption figures of 235mpg ... :rotfl: and the Prius Plug in around 135mpg ... :rotfl: .... therefore it's simply the bigger the battery, the less petrol or diesel it needs to use on the test cycle .... drive them in full EV mode and there's a theoretical carbon displacement mpg, drive either of them normally for a considerable distance (with the engine running) then it's probably around 60mpg ...

Anyway, thanks for the advice on googling EVs .... I'll pass that onto MrsZ before she presses the EV button on her new toy which she is picking up in a few days time ...

HTH
Z

Not sure what you expected me to state other than the official EU test cycle..perhaps just make something up like you? :rotfl:

zeupater wrote: »

probably around 60mpg ...

zeupater wrote: »

..... the Ampera has official consumption figures of 235mpg ... :rotfl: , drive either of them normally for a considerable distance (with the engine running) then it's probably around 60mpg ...

The Ampera averaged the equivalent of 158mpg in the urban fuel test cycle in independent testing by Which? :rotfl:, which is by far the most likely use scenerio.

zeupater

spgsc531 wrote: »

Not sure what you expected me to state other than the official EU test cycle..perhaps just make something up like you? :rotfl:





The Ampera averaged the equivalent of 158mpg in the urban fuel test cycle in independent testing by Which? :rotfl:, which is by far the most likely use scenerio.

Hi

I don't really follow the reason for the level of angst .... I simply posted to support a position on hybrid vehicles vs full EVs and expanded the point by introducing the fact that extended EV range hybrid-type vehicles were currently being released .... 10minutes later there was agreement , whilst just 12hours later there was a post stating "You need to get a more up to date google search.." then simply added another extended range hybrid example to the two which I had originally raised which, importantly, included EU test mpg and manufacturer's range claims ....

After simply pointing out that there is a flaw with the EU test regime for extended range hybrids, which there is, we get a level of abusive angst which is reminiscent of that used by a number of previously PPR'd profiles ... "perhaps just make something up like you?", so let's see what has been made-up by myself in that post ...

Is it .... "Ampera has official consumption figures of 235mpg " ... ( http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vehicles/vauxhall-range/cars/ampera/specifications/engines_transmissions.html )

Is it .... "the Prius Plug in around 135mpg " ... ( http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?navRoot=toyota_1024_root&fullwidth=true&noLeftMenu=true&forceText=%3cnone%3e&edname=CC2-Prius-Plug-specification&zone=Zone+Prius-Plug-in&id=CC2-Prius-Plug-specification )

Is it .... "drive either of them normally for a considerable distance (with the engine running) then it's probably around 60mpg" ... Autocar - Prius Plug-In "Our experience suggests more than 60mpg should be achievable on long runs"( http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/toyota/prius/mpg ) ... Autocar - Ampera "We returned 54.2mpg over six days, but we drove it far and often" ( http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/ampera/mpg ) .... note, both of these tests relate to the conditions which I described and even the Autocar article covering the A3 e-tron states ... "Taking advantage of loopholes in the European fuel consumption procedure that allows the new car to complete the test primarily in electric mode with energy provided through plug-in means, the German car maker quotes a combined cycle fuel consumption figure of 188.3mpg" ( http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/geneva-motor-show-2013/audi-a3-e-tron-plug-hybrid-breaks-cover ) ... I do also note that neither the VW or Audi hybrid vehicles raised have yet entered, or seemingly, even been approved for mass production ....

Or is it not believed that MrsZ is having a new hybrid delivered soon ? .... well she is, and it's pretty relevant to having posted, you see, as part of the selection process we didn't only google, we've had all of the cars on our shortlist to test-drive for between 1/2 day and a couple of days each .... so, no need to google as everything is pretty fresh in the mind, as it would be if you were spending that kind of money !! .....

Looks like nothing 'made up' here then ....
HTH
Z

spgsc531

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I don't really follow the reason for the level of angst(6) .... I simply posted to support a position on hybrid vehicles vs full EVs and expanded the point by introducing the fact that extended EV range hybrid-type vehicles were currently being released .... 10minutes later there was agreement , whilst just 12hours later there was a post stating "You need to get a more up to date google search.." then simply added(2) another extended range hybrid example to the two(1) which I had originally raised which, importantly, included EU test mpg and manufacturer's range claims ....

After simply pointing out that there is a flaw with the EU test regime(3) for extended range hybrids, which there is, we get a level of abusive angst(6) which is reminiscent of that used by a number of previously PPR'd profiles ... "perhaps just make something up like you?", so let's see what has been made-up by myself in that post ...

Is it .... "Ampera has official consumption figures of 235mpg " ... ( http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vehicles/vauxhall-range/cars/ampera/specifications/engines_transmissions.html )

Is it .... "the Prius Plug in around 135mpg " ... ( http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?navRoot=toyota_1024_root&fullwidth=true&noLeftMenu=true&forceText=%3cnone%3e&edname=CC2-Prius-Plug-specification&zone=Zone+Prius-Plug-in&id=CC2-Prius-Plug-specification )

Is it .... "drive either of them normally for a considerable distance (with the engine running) then it's probably around 60mpg"(4) ... Autocar - Prius Plug-In "Our experience suggests more than 60mpg should be achievable on long runs"( http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/toyota/prius/mpg ) ... Autocar - Ampera "We returned 54.2mpg over six days, but we drove it far and often" ( http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/ampera/mpg ) .... note, both of these tests relate to the conditions which I described and even the Autocar article covering the A3 e-tron states ... "Taking advantage of loopholes in the European fuel consumption procedure that allows the new car to complete the test primarily in electric mode with energy provided through plug-in means, the German car maker quotes a combined cycle fuel consumption figure of 188.3mpg" ( http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/geneva-motor-show-2013/audi-a3-e-tron-plug-hybrid-breaks-cover ) ... I do also note that neither the VW or Audi hybrid vehicles raised have yet entered, or seemingly, even been approved(5) for mass production ....

Or is it not believed that MrsZ is having a new hybrid delivered soon ? .... well she is, and it's pretty relevant to having posted, you see, as part of the selection process we didn't only google, we've had all of the cars on our shortlist to test-drive for between 1/2 day and a couple of days each .... so, no need to google as everything is pretty fresh in the mind, as it would be if you were spending that kind of money !! .....

Looks like nothing 'made up' here then ....
HTH
Z

I never mentioned the Prius plug-in so not sure why you did. (Angst?)

You've made several edits to your post. (More angst?)

1. Whilst I would agree the Ampera is an extended range hybrid, the Prius plug-in is not. (Made up thing 1?)

2. The Golf I mentioned isn't either. (Made up thing 2? Ok, bored of that now..)

Just to help you, as your extensive research clearly needs help, especially as your spending that kind of money !!:

http://www.renewableenergyadvisor.co.uk/knowledge-base/plug-hybrid-cars

Hope I'm not adding to your angst.

3. You clearly missed my own post about the Mclaren P1.

4. I think most reasonable people would accept the Which? test much more relevant than the Autocar one. I note you cherry picked the Autocar quote too.

5. I note that the Golf announcement for production was published in the very magazine that you quoted from, and prior to your posts.

6. angst? abusive angst? You need to get out more, perhaps for a considerable distance in your new hybrid. :rotfl:

zeupater

spgsc531 wrote: »

I never mentioned the Prius plug-in so not sure why you did. (Angst?)

You've made several edits to your post. (More angst?)

1. Whilst I would agree the Ampera is an extended range hybrid, the Prius plug-in is not. (Made up thing 1?)

2. The Golf I mentioned isn't either. (Made up thing 2? Ok, bored of that now..)

Just to help you, as your extensive research clearly needs help, especially as your spending that kind of money !!:

http://www.renewableenergyadvisor.co.uk/knowledge-base/plug-hybrid-cars

Hope I'm not adding to your angst.

3. You clearly missed my own post about the Mclaren P1.

4. I think most reasonable people would accept the Which? test much more relevant than the Autocar one. I note you cherry picked the Autocar quote too.

5. I note that the Golf announcement for production was published in the very magazine that you quoted from, and prior to your posts.

6. angst? abusive angst? You need to get out more, perhaps for a considerable distance in your new hybrid. :rotfl:

Hi

However you want to portray it is up to you .... I'll simply recognise the posting pattern and content as being consistent with what would be expected from serial trolling utilising multiple internet alter-egos in order to inflame normal debate .... it's been done before, and will be done again ....

As for the above post, I'll simply leave it to everyone to recognise the level of irrelevance .... as for actually supporting your point regarding hybrid vehicles, I was obviously mistaken as you seem to disagree with the support, along with any relevant source which is referenced ....

If my deduction is correct, do enjoy the temporary multiple alter-ego mayhem you may cause before this profile is finally PPRd and I'll look forward with great anticipation to the next reincarnation which, hopefully, will be equally enlightened ....

Z

grahamc2003

Looks like the indiscriminate 'thanks' ubiquitously applied to curry favour seems to have temporarily stopped recently. I wonder why that is?. Some serious thunking going on - To thank or not to thank?, that is the question.

Cardew

As 'zeup' said in post #292 in this thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/58337225#Comment_58337225

What a dilemma for our PV Guru!

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

As 'zeup' said in post #292 in this thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/58337225#Comment_58337225

What a dilemma for our PV Guru!

Did I really post that ? ... must have had my sensible head on at the time ...

Anyway, I wish that the forum moderators would be a little more proactive regarding multiple alter-egos causing friction & disruption .... it's pretty straightforward to rumble using the appropriate methodology ...

Z

grahamc2003

zeupater wrote: »

Did I really post that ? ... must have had my sensible head on at the time ...

Anyway, I wish that the forum moderators would be a little more proactive regarding multiple alter-egos causing friction & disruption .... it's pretty straightforward to rumble using the appropriate methodology ...

Z

Easy - a leopard never changes its spots, as I said in #275 of the referenced thread. Another way of saying that if you were at the peak of lead contamination, then the violent and anti-social behaviour is with you for life (I think that's what our friend Monbiot recently said somewhere).

Back to the previous off-topic discussion, the quoted fuel consumption for a hybrid is meaningless when the test are designed for internal combustion powered cars. As long as the test is below a couple of miles, then I can get infinite mpg from my hybrid (i.e. use zero petrol over that distance), but of course that doesn't mean the travel is free, and neither that the same test immediately after would give the same result). Looks to me like they'll have to get a different test strategy together if they really want to compare the amount of energy used per mile between different technologies (eg ice, hybrid, plugin hybrid and evs).

zeupater

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Easy - a leopard never changes its spots, as I said in #275 of the referenced thread. Another way of saying that if you were at the peak of lead contamination, then the violent and anti-social behaviour is with you for life (I think that's what our friend Monbiot recently said somewhere).

Back to the previous off-topic discussion, the quoted fuel consumption for a hybrid is meaningless when the test are designed for internal combustion powered cars. As long as the test is below a couple of miles, then I can get infinite mpg from my hybrid (i.e. use zero petrol over that distance), but of course that doesn't mean the travel is free, and neither that the same test immediately after would give the same result). Looks to me like they'll have to get a different test strategy together if they really want to compare the amount of energy used per mile between different technologies (eg ice, hybrid, plugin hybrid and evs).

Hi

In reality EVs and hybrids aren't that off topic. If you need to plug-it-in then the energy needs to come from somewhere ... we're already looking at a pretty awkward shortfall in generating capacity and offsetting petrol or diesel with electricity doesn't really make a lot of sense without a policy & strategy being in place which will cope.

I agree with the fuel consumption point made above, that is the crux of the discussion. It's well known that selected vehicles are carefully 'tuned' and 'prepared' for mpg testing by some (/most) manufacturers and therefore often bear no real relation to standard production, then there's the standardised rolling road etc. When it comes to hybrids the initial and completion charge state should be taken into account in order to account for all energy consumed on each test cycle, and when it comes to comparing full EV tests to standard vehicles is the comparison based on cost/mile, carbon equivalence (and if so from what fuel source mix, in what country because the mpg is standardised across the EU) ... or what ??? ... that's why the standardised tests really do need to be addressed ....

HTH
Z