Dell. Unauthorized charge of £1,600

lucy03

Irving7 wrote: »

I can see posting here was a mistake.

The additional charges I incurred were that of using my phone every day for almost 2 weeks.

As I mentioned, if you feel that you have spent, for example, 10 pounds on calls, you can claim for those as long as they're reasonable and justifiable. If you put in a large claim for phone calls you may find that the judge asks to see more evidence, such as bills from before and after the period you mentioned.

I thought people here would be civil, or at least, try to understand. I was wrong. Quite the opposite.

My personal view is that the court will consider your claim, as you initially suggested, to be excessive. I personally don't think it would be useful if everyone said "sue them for 10,000 pounds as they deserve it" if that's not realistic, even if that made people sound nicer.

I'll be getting legal advice and see where I actually stand. Most of you have wasted your time posting this thread because there is little to no meaning in your posts.

I'd suggest your legal advice will say that you need to make a provable claim, with costs that are detailed, and that you can show you've mitigated those costs which you've incurred.

It'd also be useful to see if Dell will write to tell you that they consider the matter closed, to show that you've been reasonable in trying to get the matter resolved (assuming you have been) without legal action.

unholyangel

I think we are trying to understand, we're trying to understand what exactly the situation is so we can try and advise of possible ways to proceed.

Many of the questions asked are probably the same/similar to what a judge is going to consider. For example, did dell have an implied/contractual authorisation to take the payment?

The fact that you had a contract in place with dell first complicates matters. Its not just a clear cut "they stole it". You may feel like they have stolen your money but imo, from a legal standpoint....its a civil matter...not criminal.

And you may have not been informed what the outcome of the criminal investigation is, but that still wouldnt stop you from chasing dell for losses you incurred.

Irving7

It is not that I will refuse to hear whatever doesn't sound appealing. I was subjected to mockery before I had a chance to reply. I admit I am totally lost when it comes to matters of this sort, hence why I am here and asking for help as to how to proceed. The contract was confirmed "cancelled", and thus, end of an agreement.
And yes, I am a little annoyed at some of the responses, because I have not got civilized answers. All I needed was a yes or no answer, and then an explanation. Quite simple really.

Regarding the visa charge-back. I was having on-going discussions with both the fraud department and debit card dispute department. The fraud department told me unless I didn't know the person/organisation it can't be reported as fraud, and referred me over to the debit card dispute department to request a refund. The forms I got, were indeed about fraud, but that is where I became confused as I filed it as a debit card dispute.

The money I was going to pay for the computer with on 28/12/12 was used to pay for a personal training course I had already made a deposit on. I wanted to clear the remaining amount left I had to pay (£2,100)

To the point at hand: I believe they have violated my consumer rights and I do believe I can sue them for making an unauthorized charge on my account and causing me to go into my overdraft - not allowing me to afford to purchase anything for several weeks.

Dell blamed it on a computer glitch.

unholyangel

Ok perhaps some replies could have been nicer but sometimes, theres no nice way of saying things and sometimes if you try and sugarcoat it, the actual message is lost or misunderstood.

Wanting the computer and a refund is unrealistic. You seem to have understood that already, so lets move on from that.

Make a list of your expenses incurred. Where you have paperwork/whatever to back up those expenses, include them. Send it off with a letter to dell briefly outlining the situation. Try and keep it as simple as possible. Stay away from emotional details (saying you're angry, upset etc) and stick to the facts.

You tried to order a laptop x date, payment was declined and the order was cancelled on x date. Dell have subsequently advised you that a computer glitch caused a new order to be created and they tried to take payment again on x date which resulted in you suffering a financial loss totaling x amount. Please see the attached documentation for a breakdown of that loss.

Personally, I'd write to them informally first. If they didnt reply, I'd send a 2nd letter stating if they fail to respond within 14 days, i'll file at small claims (and title the letter "letter before action").

But then personally, I'd accept the charge back and then chase them for any loss on top of the refund. At least that way, it would reduce the loss (since the bank said they will refund the charges under chargeback) and tbh, anything you can do to reduce your loss will increase the chances of Dell paying up without too much of a fight.

gb12345

Irving7 wrote: »

To the point at hand: I believe they have violated my consumer rights and I do believe I can sue them for making an unauthorized charge on my account and causing me to go into my overdraft - not allowing me to afford to purchase anything for several weeks.

You may well be able to sue them for this through the higher courts (I am not a legal expert, so I don't know for sure), but not through small claims. If you've got the money available to pay solicitors and barristers fees then go for it and hope that you get a sympathetic hearing.

What you should have done was accept the Visa chargeback and them claim against Dell for your additional financial losses. The judge in any claim you make is not going to look favourably on the fact that you rejected the chargeback.

Irving7

@ unholyangel & gb12345: Thank you.

You have both replied in an appropriate manner, to which helps me better understand the steps I need to take to resolve this matter.

Now, I don't feel like I'm being mocked. Easy.
This time round, I have been helped out by some fellow human beings. Gratitude, to both of you, for taking your time to help me on your recent posts.

Also, I have logged into my bank account and I have now noticed it is Visa charge-back, and not a fraud claim refund.

The confusion lied between the discussions that had taken place over the duration of a week to both the fraud department, and the Visa debit disputes department. It appears now, the Visa debit disputes department were the ones to issue the refund. But, because the letters I had received were from the fraud department stating that they had refunded my account, I was a little confused as to who it actually was that refunded me. It's presently become clear, it wasn't the fraud department, because they mentioned on the forms that the refund would be taken back out of my account within 14 days on (14/02/13), if the forms weren't signed for.

As mentioned in previous posts, I was hesitant to sign the forms because a) I wasn't sure what department refunded me, and b) if it was the fraud department, I feared the police would resolve this case and close it, without the additional charges I incurred throughout this ordeal, being refunded.

I am happy to receive a charge-back. Of course, now that I know for sure it is a charge-back, and not a fraud claim. That's some weight off my shoulders knowing that the refund is there to stay. I will, however, proceed to get all of my money back in the mean time, and perhaps take your advice of taking them to a higher court.

dalesrider

Irving7 wrote: »

I am happy to receive a charge-back. Of course, now that I know for sure it is a charge-back, and not a fraud claim. That's some weight off my shoulders knowing that the refund is there to stay. I will, however, proceed to get all of my money back in the mean time, and perhaps take your advice of taking them to a higher court.

Just to make you aware that refund MAY NOT stay in your account.
Dell have 45 days to reject the chargeback.

As someone who deals with both fraud and disputes. I am strugling to understand on what basis halifax have actioned this.
Only one I can come near to is a unrecognised transaction. Now dell can reject simply by providing halifax the voucher on the purchase with your name and address on.

Same if it was actioned as fraud. Again claiming the money back is done via chargeback and if again they provide your details you would be redebited.

So please do not think that it is all done and dusted as far as the refund from Halifax goes.

timbstoke

I'm going to strip out a lot of your mail here, but I'll rearrange your summary:

Irving7 wrote: »

• They have got the computer in their possession
• They have refused to refund me
• Interest fees have occurred as a result of being in overdraft
• They made 2 new contracts (08/01/13 and 01/02/13) without me acknowledging it or agreeing to it, and making an unauthorized charge on my account to cause me to go well into my overdraft.
• Spent 10s of hours on the phone trying to sort this situation out
  Maybe relevant if it's not a freephone line and you can quantify your costs
  [STRIKE]
• Went a week without affording anything[/STRIKE]
  Irrelevant
  [STRIKE]
• Relied on parents to accommodate me[/STRIKE]
  Irrelevant
  [STRIKE]
• After a week of not being able to afford anything I relied on my father to lend me £1000 to take me out of debt[/STRIKE]
  Irrelevant
  [STRIKE]
• Embarrasment and humiliation having card declined at checkout and asking father for money[/STRIKE]
  Irrelevant
  [STRIKE]
• Became ill from all the stress and needed to take a day off work
  Irrelevant[/STRIKE]

So, in a nutshell, what actually happened is that Dell reinstated your order and charged your card without your authority. What you're entitled to in that case is a full refund, which is what you were getting from your card issuer.

If you now go to court, you will not be entitled to any more than this, and if Dell mention that you initiated a chargeback and then backed out of it, you may well now lose as it could be decided that you did in fact place the order and backed out when the police were mentioned. At the very least Dell could ask the court to deduct the cost of their chargeback from any award, which will not be more than the cost of the laptop. You certainly won't get the laptop and a refund, that's frankly just silly.

Irving7

It has been a while since I last posted...

@dalesrider I thought as much. I will be keeping an eye on my bank account. So far so good.

@timbstoke I have received the refund for the apparent purchase of the laptop only, and as mentioned that refund was initiated by Halifax and could be changed. There wasn't a refund for the additional costs involved! I have clear proof that they had made a new contract without my consent; and therefore they are in breach of contract.

Dell have been sued left, right and centre by people who were not happy with the services they had received. A simple Google search using the term "Dell complaint" will bring you a myriad of results. I am just a straw in the haystack. My case is a clear breach of contract and on that basis I have the right to sue them. I have no experience about making a claim and whether it is even worth it, taking into account the costs involved.