I cant get car insurance because I do courier work

Edwood_Woodwood

Car_54 wrote: »

"The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency defines hire and reward as encompassing any payment in cash or kind by (or on behalf of passengers which gives them a right to be carried."

Pizza delivery does not fit that definition. Nor do most types of business, including mine.

It's academic - we need insurance for business use, and the insurers need to know precisely what type of buiness.

Pizza delivery, catalogue delivery etc jobs, whether self employed or employed, means driving for profit.

The whole purpose of having such a job is to make a living from driving.

The distinction between a taxi driver or a pizza delivery driver is that one transports people, the other goods.

What they do have in common, and which is the legal salient point, is that both do it for profit.

Driving for profit requires an ins policy that allows this.

Even business Ins class 3 doesn't allow this, only H&R does.

bugslet

Edwood_Woodwood wrote: »

Goods In Transit Ins only covers what it suggests, the goods being transported.

That doesn't get away from the fact that appropriate compulsory personal insurance is still required.

And even fully comp ins doesn't allow to drive for profit, only hire and reward does.

Yep, you're quite right - thinking head not firmly on!

Edwood_Woodwood

Feral_Moon wrote: »

I've always looked on 'hire and reward' as in transporting people for reward of money. Not goods carried by a courier.

It seems the Police are of the same opinion as I, when questioned about whether they need Hire and Reward insurance

It is the "driving for profit" element that is the important matter here and which is not mentioned at all in the link provided.

H&R can apply to a taxi or a delivery driver.

One can both hire the vehicle (for transportation) and reward (paying for that service) in both circumstances.

The point is, a taxi driver will be insured for this commercial venture, as must anyone else who makes a living from offering a commercial transport service.

I suggest you speak to your insurers regarding driving for profit and that they will insure you to do so.

Btw, it is the CPS who's view is most important, not the police.

Car_54

Edwood_Woodwood wrote: »

It is the "driving for profit" element that is the important matter here and which is not mentioned at all in the link provided.

H&R can apply to a taxi or a delivery driver.

One can both hire the vehicle (for transportation) and reward (paying for that service) in both circumstances.

The point is, a taxi driver will be insured for this commercial venture, as must anyone else who makes a living from offering a commercial transport service.

I suggest you speak to your insurers regarding driving for profit and that they will insure you to do so.

Btw, it is the CPS who's view is most important, not the police.

Sorry, this is just plain wrong, as my quote from the DVLA above shows. Yours may be a commonsense interpretation of the words H & R, but they have a specific meaning in motoring and insurance law.

The DVLA also say that there is NO distinction between commercial operations running at a profit and non-commercial operations using volunteer drivers without payment.

My vehicles are insured for business use - and I certainly aim to make a profit - but use for hire and reward is specifically EXCLUDED. How would you explain that?

sh0597

Regardless of wording, it would be prudent to be absolutely certain you are covered for the business use you need.

Car_54

sh0597 wrote: »

Regardless of wording, it would be prudent to be absolutely certain you are covered for the business use you need.

It's a bit more than prudent - it's essential.

dacouch

Insurers tend to refer to courier use as being for Hire and Reward, this is due to the having the following (Industry definitions for commercial vehicles eg trucks and vans)

Own Goods eg a builder

Haulage eg a haulage contractor making a few pre planned drops

Hire & Reward eg a courier.

The difference between a courier and a bona fide subcontractor is difficult to explain to an outsider but if you imagine a company deliver a number of pallets to a couple of customers. A courier tends to be able to make numerous drops and collections which can vary throughout the day.

Apart from the obvious differences in driving standards between a courier in a transit van and a professional HGV driver. There are also a couple of other issues which cause a large increase in claims to couriers. They have a habit of leaving the keys in the vehicle or the vehicle unlocked. They're also normally in a mad rush which has an impact of their driving standards and they also tend to mark in dangerous positions.

Most Insurers will not touch couriers as they've had their fingers burnt when they've ventured into the market (The high premiums attract Insurers) or where they cover a courier inadvertently and discover it at the time of the claim. (They have a habit of concealing their occupation)