Short time

Climb46

Good morning - I am new to this but would dearly like some advice. Right now I feel I am being very used/taken for granted in my employment. After almost 3 years of short time I am at my wits end.
Nothing has improved and I doubt.it will do. What rights do I have as an employee - I have visited CAB and the ACAS website but if anything I am more confused. Has anyone go e through the same thing? I have been with my employer for 30 years! Thanks in advance.

getmore4less

What's in the contract about flexable hours, lay off and short time?

when you say short time
What are your normal contracted hours
What hours are you getting

have a read of the rules on layoffs and short time.
https://www.gov.uk/lay-offs-short-timeworking/overview

zzzLazyDaisy

In addition to getmore4less's points...

What do you mean, exactly, by you have been on short time for three years? It is important to know what your original hours were, how the 'short time working' came about, and what the current arrangements are.

The reason for this is that, depending what happened at the time, and what has happened since, this short time working may have been incorporated into your contract.

As an example, say you were employed for 40 hours a week, and the employer told you that there wasn't enough work and he was reducing your hours to 30 (or 20, or whatever). Maybe he said something like 'if work picks up we'll look at it again'. In that scenario, with nothing more, three years down the line and nothing has changed, your contractual hours are now 30 (or 20 or whatever). The reason is that if the employer changes the contract and the employee continues to work under the contract without formal written protest, then s/he is deemed by their conduct to have accepted the change.

This is only one scenario, but it illustrates why we need to know the background in order to make any worthwhile comments.

Oscargrouch

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

In addition to getmore4less's points...

From your signature: this means that yet again under the present ConDemNation Gov. the employee is being screwed again? And has no chance of re-dress unless he or she can afford to lose. What a Country we now live in...:mad: All in it together..:rotfl:

Climb46

No contract even after 30 years - I used to work full time 42 hours now its the odd day, lucky to ever get a week in, no advice - nothing. Feel totally used. I know nothing about the future of the company only that its grim with regard to work coming in. How long can they let me go on like this for? There are no other employees working there.

zzzLazyDaisy

So, are you saying that until three years ago you had worked full time for 30 years, doing a regular 42 hrs a week? And then at that point you stopped working full-time and for the three years since then you have only worked the occasional odd day as and when the employer has needed you?

If that is a reasonable summary, then can you tell us what happened three years ago? It is unlikely that you went from full-time working to the odd day here and there without anything being said by either you or the employer.

We need to know the circumstances which led to your hours being your changed three years ago? what was said at the time? was anything put in writing?

It would also be useful if you could confirm how you are paid. In other words, if you now only work a day here and there, are you still paid through the pay roll in the normal way, do you still get a P60 at the end of the tax year? Or are you paid cash in hand and/or do you sort out your own tax and national insurance?

Sorry for the questions, but we need to be clear about the facts, as any one of these things could change the whole picture, in law.

Dx

zzzLazyDaisy

Oscargrouch wrote: »

From your signature: this means that yet again under the present ConDemNation Gov. the employee is being screwed again? And has no chance of re-dress unless he or she can afford to lose. What a Country we now live in...:mad: All in it together..:rotfl:

I agree - that's why I have put it in my signature to warn people. Discrimination claims will also fall within the new fee structure.

In fact it is a bit more complicated than that, because there will be exemptions for people on low incomes - we don't have details, but my guess would be that people on unemployment related means tested benefits (probably excluding LHA/HB/CTB) will qualify, and people on contribution based benefits, or who have a working spouse, savings etc will probably not. But that is just my guess and I hope I am wrong.

Some very straightforward claims such as unlawful deduction from wages will have lower fees, but they do not make up the bulk of ET claims.

There is no provision in the legislation for saying a losing employer must pay the winning employee's costs, but I think (hope) that tribunals will take that on board as a head of loss, when awarding compensation.

There is also provision under the new legislation for tribunals to 'fine' employers who unreasonably defend claims, but I can't see them exercising that power much, and in any case as far as I know that 'fine' will go into the public coffers, and not to the employee (but again I will be happy to be proved wrong).

What it means in reality is that many employees with valid claims will be prevented from pursuing claims to the tribunal.

The result is that by the back door, it will mean that it will be much easier for an employer to dismiss a lower paid employee because it will drastically lower the risk of them going to tribunal in the first place - and often it is ONLY the threat of tribunal that encourages employers to follow procedures and dismiss fairly.

First they penalised the sick and disabled, and no-one said anything because, after all, they are all scroungers, and anyway, it didn't affect them, so no-one stood up and spoke out for them.

Now they are penalising the people who lose their jobs through no fault of their own.... but I guess thay are all lazy layabouts who probably deserved to be sacked, and anyway, it doesn't affect the people who have jobs.... and I bet no-one will do anything about this either.

Dx

getmore4less

It will be cheaper to go small claims in some cases.

Climb46

It may be the odd week but its mainly odd days now. There is no formal agreement -its usually a phone call and I jump. Prior to this short time work was plentiful but obviously its now not. 3 years ago I recd a letter from my employee informing me of the drop off in work but nothing was mentioned about change of hours. It was more a letter to inform me of how things were looking ( bleak) but it did state that they were sure things will pick up and thanked me for my loyalty and patience... 3 years ago! I feel tied - if I leave for another job what do I stand to lose yet what have I lost over these past few years in lost earnings? Alot of money , I suppose I am clinging on for redundancy but how long can they treat me this way? I am paid for the days worked - it goes into my bank account, I havent recd a payslip for about 6 months nor a P60. Sometimes they pay me late and I have to chase it up - yes, I know its disgraceful and not the right way in which to run a business. How long can they let this go on for? I hope i have explained myself - i may have missed answering some of your questions, If so, I apologise - its difficult to keep scrolling down to read the last reply.

Climb46

It may be the odd week but its mainly odd days now. There is no formal agreement -its usually a phone call and I jump. Prior to this short time work was plentiful but obviously its now not. 3 years ago I recd a letter from my employee informing me of the drop off in work but nothing was mentioned about change of hours. It was more a letter to inform me of how things were looking ( bleak) but it did state that they were sure things will pick up and thanked me for my loyalty and patience... 3 years ago! I feel tied - if I leave for another job what do I stand to lose yet what have I lost over these past few years in lost earnings? Alot of money , I suppose I am clinging on for redundancy but how long can they treat me this way? I am paid for the days worked - it goes into my bank account, I havent recd a payslip for about 6 months nor a P60. Sometimes they pay me late and I have to chase it up - yes, I know its disgraceful and not the right way in which to run a business. How long can they let this go on for? I hope i have explained myself - i may have missed answering some of your questions, If so, I apologise - its difficult to keep scrolling down to read the last reply.

zzzLazyDaisy

Climb46 wrote: »

I suppose I am clinging on for redundancy but how long can they treat me this way? I am paid for the days worked - it goes into my bank account, I havent recd a payslip for about 6 months nor a P60.

Okay, then it sound to me that because this has gone on so long, your contract has changed from full time to 'flexible hours'. The time to have challenged this was at the time this change was made, but in my view you would be deemed to have accepted the new arrangments by virtue of the fact that you have continued to work under them for three years.


Unfortunately, if that is right, then if you are made redundant, your statutory redundancy pay would be calculated on your hours averaged out over the previous 12 weeks. But the way things are there is no reason for the employer to make you redundant. It is also worrying that you have not had wages slips for 6 months as you do not know if the employer is paying tax and NI on your wages. Really, if you need full time hours I'd suggest that you look for another job.

In terms of your rights concerning the short time working, I doubt you have many rights but I suggest that you speak to CAB or a local law centre, or check if you have legal insurance as part of your house insurance and see if you can get some advice from an employment solicitor.