NHS Dental costs - have I been charged correctly?

Annonay

welshdent wrote: »

Re no incentive - I stand by that. You see only what happens from your perspective. I.e. cheque made payable to the dentist or the practice. Well that's becuse the pct only deals with that dentist or practice. They do not deal with you. The money you pay is pct money. The dentist is credited solely with however many udas your treatment was worth. Band 1 = 1 Uda. Band 2 =3. Band 3= 12 and band 4 = 1.2.
The Uda is equivalent to a cash amount which varies practice to practice. It is not varied in any way shape or form by how much you pay. The dentist receives exactly the same amount whether you a fee paying, exempt or on a continuation. The form is the same. You tick the same treatment boxes. You enter how much the patient paid so the pct knows how much they need to deduct from the practice contract. So if the practice took money off you that they didn't have to then it would have been in error and you can guarantee the pct will not be telling them because it is the pct that would benefit.

If I pay money to Mr Smith (if that is what the dentist is called), it goes into Mr Smiths bank account.

If I pay money to ACME Dental Surgery, it goes into their account. Presumably the dental surgery pay their dentists.

(To clarify, Mr Smith worked at a surgery too, lets call it Mr Jones Dental Surgery, but I was told not to make the payment to the surgery)

welshdent

http://www.dental.cam.ac.uk/downloads/nhs-fees.pdf

http://www.jordan-dental.co.uk/payments.htm

They are practice info and this is for nhs dentistry in Wales. It's the same as England just different prices.

http://www.nhsdirect.wales.nhs.uk/localservices/dentistfaq/

While not explicitly naming the band As band 4 after the band 3 item it says emergency treatment would be paid for separately.

Scroll to page 9 of this PDF. http://www.camden.nhs.uk/downloads/A%20guide%20to%20NHS%20dental%20services%20in%20England.pdf

http://www.brightonandhovepct.nhs.uk/localservices/dentist/index.asp

Urgent treatment noted on there.

This is a sample claim form we fill in to be credited with activity. Box 4 is urgent treatment. The name may or may not be satisfied for you. We have always termed it band 4. Every dentist and lhb or pct representative I know call it band 4. The name is largely irrelevant though becuse what it is and what it represents does exist.


http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/DentalServices/FP17_-England_April_2012.pdf

Annonay

welshdent wrote: »

I won't treat someone unless I have examined them myself first. Payment would depend on the situation. If I am taking responsibility for a treatment plan I have to be happy with it first.

You might charge again???:eek:

Well you would be another dentist I would soon lose faith in!
And I don't think that would be in line with NHS procedure either.

Remember, there are 3 charges

In simple form:

£17.50 gets you a check up, x-rays if necessary and a plan.
It also would provide you with emergency treatment - whatever that may be.

£48 get you the £17.50 services (less the emergency treatment) plus filling (s) (including root canal treatment)

£209 gets you all the above (less emergency treatment) plus bridges, crowns, dentures, etc.

You can't charge £17.50 for a check up and tell a patient they need a filling that will cost a further £48

The dentist can either charge the £48 in one go or charge £17.50 and then £30.50 for the filling (this sometimes happens if the dentist doesn't think the patient will return)

welshdent

Don't twist what I said. I said it depends on the situation.
I may if necessary charge again. I may not. Also we don't really HAVE a charge for an examination. We have charges for a course of treatment and one can not DO a course of treatment without doing an exam.

You are focussing on the money going to a bank account but I am referring to the contract holder. It may be the practice and it may be the individual. However the money you pay comes off the agreed contract. By that I mean if you pay or not, the dentist will be credited ultimately with the same money. Unless you are accusing them of the rather serious offence of fraud, they do not gain extra money or additional money by charging you.

welshdent

An example of where I would charge - you came in for an exam. We're told you needed a filling and only paid the equivalent of a band 1. You then didn't come back for 6 months I which time dentist a has closed down your open course of treatment and you were then booked in with me. Not only would I charge you for the exam, I would have to because it would not be possible to not charge you.

welshdent

If some thing happened to your dentist requiring you to see someone else I.e. in the situations you mentioned, normally the contract holder would take over care because it such a logistical pain internally if you are treated by 2 different associates. One of them would end up working for nothing so the principal who gets at least a 50% cut of the fee takes over as contract delivery is their responsibility. It's not like medicine where we are all employed directly. We are ALL independent practitioners even if we may work in the same building.

Annonay

welshdent wrote: »

http://www.dental.cam.ac.uk/downloads/nhs-fees.pdf

http://www.jordan-dental.co.uk/payments.htm

They are practice info and this is for nhs dentistry in Wales. It's the same as England just different prices.

http://www.nhsdirect.wales.nhs.uk/localservices/dentistfaq/

While not explicitly naming the band As band 4 after the band 3 item it says emergency treatment would be paid for separately.

Scroll to page 9 of this PDF. http://www.camden.nhs.uk/downloads/A%20guide%20to%20NHS%20dental%20services%20in%20England.pdf

http://www.brightonandhovepct.nhs.uk/localservices/dentist/index.asp

Urgent treatment noted on there.

This is a sample claim form we fill in to be credited with activity. Box 4 is urgent treatment. The name may or may not be satisfied for you. We have always termed it band 4. Every dentist and lhb or pct representative I know call it band 4. The name is largely irrelevant though becuse what it is and what it represents does exist.


http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/DentalServices/FP17_-England_April_2012.pdf

Link 1 does include Band 4 but it's cambridge university article.
I would prefer an NHS article (or othe official governemnt link such as from the Department of Heath) to a third party article

Link 2 is a dental service, but again a third party site.

Link 3 is NHS - but nothing there about Band 4

Link 4 is also an NHS link - but on page 9 that you poiunted me to it refers to 'the Band 1 Urgent Charge' - agin nothing about Band 4

Link 5 also a NHS link, but again no metion of a Band 4 (but Urgent Treatment is mentioned after Band 3)

Link 6 - on that basis are you saying there are 10 bands???
It would be wrong to confuse treatment category with charging bands.

Annonay

welshdent wrote: »

Don't twist what I said. I said it depends on the situation.
I may if necessary charge again. I may not. .

So I've not twisted anything you have said.

welshdent wrote: »

Unless you are accusing them of the rather serious offence of fraud,

If anything, you appear to be the one trying to twist things.
That is not what I said, if you care to read my previous post again carefully.

Annonay

welshdent wrote: »

An example of where I would charge - you came in for an exam. We're told you needed a filling and only paid the equivalent of a band 1. You then didn't come back for 6 months I which time dentist a has closed down your open course of treatment and you were then booked in with me. Not only would I charge you for the exam, I would have to because it would not be possible to not charge you.

Lets not make some hypothetical situation that falls down so many cracks it's unbelievable.

Lets keep to the situation in hand.

I went to a dentist 4-6 weeks ago and paid a band 2 charge.

Since that date I have paid an additional Band 1 charge and a Band 2 charge

Ok - we've agreed the Band 1 charge may be appropriate if having to wait 2 days and getting no treatments as such, but an x-ray, an appointment, and a prescription to support that appointment 2 weeks later is considered emergency treatment.

What about the second Band 2 charge within 2 months?
I don't think that was correct and I saw others confirm that.

I don't think the dentist deliberately charged me something wrong. They have simply made a mistake either thinking I should have been charged irrespective of the circumstances, or they forgot I paid the Band 2 charge less than 2 months earlier.

Either way, I'm sure they will make out their paperwork to the PCT to reflect whatever they were thinking. No fraud intended.

welshdent

Goodness you are frustrating. I said that charging you when you could have possibly had a continuation would NOT yield a financial benefit to the dentist because they would be paid the same to treat you as a continuation of treatment as they would if they charged you the standard fee for the band which in this case is a band 2. What's not to get?
If I do a band 2 and you pay nothing I am credited 3 uda's worth. No more no less. For arguments sake lets say it is £60.
If I do a band 2 and you pay £40 I would get 3 uda's or £60. So as I said. There is nothing to be gained by taking a charge from you if they do not have to. The dentist does not make more money. The contract money is paid to the practice by the pct and charge revenue is deducted by the pct.