NHS Dental costs - have I been charged correctly?

brook2jack

Band four treatment is emergency treatment only read the previous link for the list of treatment which may be carried out (page two) http://www.erypct.nhs.uk/upload/DENTAL/Guide%20to%20dental%20treatment%20bands.pdf.
dentist is only to carry out treatment to stop your dental health deteriorating. You will not have a full check up. You will not have anything looked at other than the tooth or teeth giving problems. It may be appropriate to just give advice.

If you haven't had a check up recently then you would need a second appointment , band one , with a new charge to look at your overall oral health.

These are two different types of treatment, two different claims, two charges .

You had been booked in for an emergency appointment that requires a set amount of time to get you out of a problem. The band four payment is a recognition that emergencies can happen, are often time consuming and don't include a check up as this is not necessary to stabilise a patient's dental condition. Read the attached you could not insist on a check up, it's not covered in this emergency band.

Welshdent qualified after this present contract started in 2006 when all four bands were introduced at its inception . Incidentally even under the old system there were emergency treatments that could be done without a check up.

Annonay

welshdent wrote: »

It may also be worth noting that there is zero financial incentive to make you pay for something that should be free so your dentist is not trying a fiddle. They would be paid the same if you paid or didn't. That touches on my point that you don't pay the dentist anything directly. It's pct cash

So I don't pay the dentist anything directly. eh?

At the previous dentist I used to go to (the one I lost faith in) I always had to pay the specific dentist in person; the cheque had to be made out in his name - this was on the instruction of the receptionist.

I'm not sure why any dentist would charge something they were not supposed to unless they thought it correct ... and then they would make out the paperwork accordingly.

Whilst charging someone something incorrectly could easily cause (a) bad feeling and (b) bad reputation when the customer goes back in and demands a refund in front of other customers, I can't see why any dentist would charge unless they thought it was to their own benefit.

Making the paperwork stack up with whatever they think is right is not difficult.
I suspect it's a bit like VAT or Tax - you declare what you think is correct, and providing it is not clearly wrong (or an error is discovered in a routine check such as may occur with VAT) then chances are no one will be the wiser.

Toothsmith

Annonay wrote: »

Erm... all the links seem to confirm Urgent treatment is charged at Band 1 rate.

To say Band 4 has been there since day 1 is incorrect - this 3 band (or 4 band in your mind) charging system hasn't been around that long.

I think they were meaning Day 1 as in 1st April 2006 when this April Fool system came into play - and the day I completely stopped doing any NHS work what all!

You are completely right to call it a rip-off system. It rips off both patient and dentist. It was not devised by dentists. It was a product of Nu Labour who wanted to put a lid on NHS dental spending and ration treatment. It managed that so successfully that the coalition are happy to keep it running, especially as the patients keep blaming the dentists.

But if you think this system is bad, just wait until you see the one that's lined up for a couple of years time!

Annonay

brook2jack wrote: »

Band four treatment is emergency treatment only read the previous link for the list of treatment which may be carried out (page two) http://www.erypct.nhs.uk/upload/DENTAL/Guide%20to%20dental%20treatment%20bands.pdf.

Where on that link does it refer to a Band 4 charge???

It says Urgent Treatment (Band 1 charge)

brook2jack

Yes the charge says in brackets band one ie the same as band onebut if you read the details what is allowable treatment is completely different from band one which is on the previous page. They are two separate treatments, two separate bands. Having emergency treatment and paying the charge does not entitle you to band one treatment at no extra charge.

welshdent

Annonay wrote: »

Erm... all the links seem to confirm Urgent treatment is charged at Band 1 rate.

To say Band 4 has been there since day 1 is incorrect - this 3 band (or 4 band in your mind) charging system hasn't been around that long.

Wadr I have worked in nhs dentistry since I qualified. I have only ever worked as an associate with this current contract. Band 4 or band 1 urgent, whatever you wish to call it has been around from day 1 of the contract and has always been the same price as a standard band 1. However band 1 is for diagnosis and prevention. Band 4 is urgent care such as assessment for immediate problems and advice, arresting an infection, dressing a tooth, re cementing crowns and bridgework, single extraction or single filling. None of that can be done on a band 1.

I can see you have issues with how you have been managed but we do not make the rules we just administer a system imposed by government. You said you were examined. However the next time when you had pain you saw a different dentist. How could they know what was wrong if they did not examine you too? We are not psychic. We can't tell what is going on with you on the basis of someone else's examination

welshdent

Re no incentive - I stand by that. You see only what happens from your perspective. I.e. cheque made payable to the dentist or the practice. Well that's becuse the pct only deals with that dentist or practice. They do not deal with you. The money you pay is pct money. The dentist is credited solely with however many udas your treatment was worth. Band 1 = 1 Uda. Band 2 =3. Band 3= 12 and band 4 = 1.2.
The Uda is equivalent to a cash amount which varies practice to practice. It is not varied in any way shape or form by how much you pay. The dentist receives exactly the same amount whether you a fee paying, exempt or on a continuation. The form is the same. You tick the same treatment boxes. You enter how much the patient paid so the pct knows how much they need to deduct from the practice contract. So if the practice took money off you that they didn't have to then it would have been in error and you can guarantee the pct will not be telling them because it is the pct that would benefit.

Annonay

brook2jack wrote: »

Yes the charge says in brackets band one ie the same as band onebut if you read the details what is allowable treatment is completely different from band one which is on the previous page. They are two separate treatments, two separate bands. Having emergency treatment and paying the charge does not entitle you to band one treatment at no extra charge.

I've read the link again, but still can't see where it says Band 4.
Maybe you can point me in the right direction ... and I don't mean specsavers.

Annonay

welshdent wrote: »

Wadr I have worked in nhs dentistry since I qualified. I have only ever worked as an associate with this current contract. Band 4 or band 1 urgent, whatever you wish to call it has been around from day 1 of the contract and has always been the same price as a standard band 1.

I'll call it Urgent Treatment (Band 1 charge) as that appears to be what the NHS call it ... unless you can show me otherwise.

welshdent wrote: »

You said you were examined. However the next time when you had pain you saw a different dentist. How could they know what was wrong if they did not examine you too? We are not psychic. We can't tell what is going on with you on the basis of someone else's examination

Well in all the dental surgeries I have been to, all the dentists there can access any of the patients notes, x-rays, etc.

You don't think any dentist remembers what they saw when they examined a patient possibly 2 weeks earlier do you?
(It can easily be 2 weeks between a check up and an appointment for subsequent treatment)

What would happen if the dentist was run over by a bus following a check up (and no other treatment needed).
Do you think the patient would be called back in to extract another £17.50 whilst another dentist does the check up?

On this occassion neither the second dentist, nor the first, would have known why I had pain without further examiniation. It was not identified by the first dentist 4 weeks earlier and was on a completely different tooth to the one that was filled.

welshdent

I won't treat someone unless I have examined them myself first. Payment would depend on the situation. If I am taking responsibility for a treatment plan I have to be happy with it first.