Surface water drainage refund claim.

devondiver

Firstly - no offence. Purely tongue-in-cheek.

"However it isn't a scam by the water companies and they have no incentive to rectify the problem."

I agree, of course. But it would not take a genius to devise financing tweaks which rewarded the water companies on a basis of customer satisfaction, especially with regard to complaints and dispute resolution. Such ‘tweaks’ would positively incentivise them to ensure that all customers were on the correct tariff, rather than the reverse as at present. In this way the companies’ behaviour to date, which arguably bears the hallmarks of scamming and attracts such accusations, would be actively discouraged. QED.

In my own case South West Water could easily have informed all 90 households on this estate that they should be on the lower tariff and then, along with their shareholders, bathed in the resultant satisfaction rating. As it is they will have to field an ever growing number of claims like mine and will ultimately face an embarrassing and costly comeuppance. How long before we are all plagued by cold calls from companies offering to claim our surface water drainage refunds of several hundred pounds per case? Who is going to be first to champion the cause and show consumers that it really is very simple?

Cardew

devondiver wrote: »

How long before we are all plagued by cold calls from companies offering to claim our surface water drainage refunds of several hundred pounds per case? ?

There apparently are companies already 'cold calling' and say they will get cheaper water bills i.e. they prepare a case for SWD refunds for a fee. - posts on MSE about this scheme - although at the time all companies dug in their heels about backdating refunds. - quoting the then extant Ofwat ruling.

jellie

devondiver wrote: »

In my own case South West Water could easily have informed all 90 households on this estate that they should be on the lower tariff and then, along with their shareholders, bathed in the resultant satisfaction rating.

When I moved into my then brand new house 20 years ago, the water company charged for swd. My neighbours then told me that they had discovered we had soakaways.

I did eventually get the charge removed and a backdated refund. However, the water company would have known they were not entitled to make the charge in the first place.

devondiver

My claim - update

£360 recovered to date covering charges back to April 1st 2001. Now claiming interest due which amounts to £224 at 8%pa.

SWW claim that interest is not due because the charges were legal and they will only apply interest to charges which were made "wrongly". I have told them this is plainly b*****ks and I will issue a court summons.

I do hope they stick to their guns!

devondiver

Hi all.

Just to add that, after some gentle persuasion i.e. threat of court action and claim for costs, South West Water agreed to pay interest on the backdated money refunded back to April 2001. :j

I claimed 8% (compound), they said company policy was RPI only (about £80). Gentle persuasion resulted in them agreeing to £200 of the £224 I was claiming.

So, much as I would have liked to have tested the case in court, it really wasn't worth pursuing them for £24, which they probably would have coughed up prior to the hearing.

So all charges plus interest now reclaimed back to April 2001 amount to £606.15 paid into my water account. Equivalent to well over 12 months bills. :beer:

In my case the saving was about 17% of sewage charges alone with SWD, and about 7% of total water charges with SWD.

If others want to reclaim their backdated charges it is simply a matter of demonstrating, as previously explained, that the water company "might reasonably be expected to have known" that SWD charges did not apply. In other words - if your house, or others on the same estate or nearby, had gained the exemption then a small intuitive step was all that was required (- to know that your house would also not be connected for SWD).


But don't be fobbed off - they will try all sorts of little tricks of semantics to undermine your determination.


Good luck.

ncw2509

Hello.
We are in the process of applying for a refund/rebate on the surface water draining charges on our water bill with Welsh Water.

We built our house in 1994, and one of the planning conditions was to install 'soakaways' on the property to deal with surface water.

We were unaware that we were eligible for a rebate on our water charges due to us having the 'soakaways (no breakdown on the bill except water and sewerage', and no information from Welsh Water when we paid them to install our mains water/sewerage at the time of the build).

We have only recently discovered that we should not have been paying for this charge since 1994!!.

How far back can we apply for the refund for the charges wrongly applied to our account.

Thank you in anticipation for any information helpful to our cause.:)

Cardew

ncw2509 wrote: »

Hello.
We are in the process of applying for a refund/rebate on the surface water draining charges on our water bill with Welsh Water.

We built our house in 1994, and one of the planning conditions was to install 'soakaways' on the property to deal with surface water.

We were unaware that we were eligible for a rebate on our water charges due to us having the 'soakaways (no breakdown on the bill except water and sewerage', and no information from Welsh Water when we paid them to install our mains water/sewerage at the time of the build).

We have only recently discovered that we should not have been paying for this charge since 1994!!.

How far back can we apply for the refund for the charges wrongly applied to our account.

Thank you in anticipation for any information helpful to our cause.:)

Welcome to the forum.

This is a more recent thread on the same subject:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4765287

The position with SWD charges is a disgrace. However the situation on backdating of refunds is not straight forward.

So playing the Devil's Advocate.

1. The water companies were doing nothing wrong in charging for SWD. Under the Water Privatisation Act the default position was that the SWD charge would be raised and it was up to householders to claim relief. So the charges were not 'wrongly applied to your account'

2. The position on not backdating was laid down by the Regulator and logical reasons were given for that policy.

3. In the small print of your bills and associated paperwork are, or at least should be, details of what the charge was for and how to claim relief. So you being unaware is down to you.

4. This is the crucial factor from the Ofwat guidance;

There will be occasions when a company did know,
or might reasonably be expected to have known, that a property or properties were not connected to its sewerage system for surface water drainage. Under such circumstances we would expect the company to apply a rebate with effect from the date that it knew it was not providing the service.”

As said in the other thread, the difficulty is for a householder to determine when a company 'might reasonably be expected to have known' etc.

5. The normal legal limit under Statute of Limitations is 6 years, although I am not sure if this situation would be covered under that legislation.

So IMO for backdating you will have to present a case giving reasons why the company should have known etc.

Please don't think I am being unsympathetic or discouraging you from applying for a rebate. If you make enough of a fuss you might get a 'goodwill' payment even if they deny liability.

I suspect there could be millions of people who are paying SWD when they are entitled to relief. The irony is that it makes no difference to the profits of the water companies if SWD is charged or not.

P.S.
It is also pertinent that for SWD charges it is not just water from gutters etc . It applies if any water from your land can drain into the road and hence sewerage system

otterjpf

Sounds like Devondiver had little trouble in proving the water authority knew about SWD for his estate. Not so with ours built c1972 and district council has thrown out all the planning records. Of course this is just fine and dandy for SWW. Can anyone suggest a different line of approach?

Cardew

otterjpf wrote: »

Sounds like Devondiver had little trouble in proving the water authority knew about SWD for his estate. Not so with ours built c1972 and district council has thrown out all the planning records. Of course this is just fine and dandy for SWW. Can anyone suggest a different line of approach?

I am afraid that planning records would not have helped even if they indicated that soakaways were to be included for the estate.

The Water companies had no option but to charge for SWD as the 'default' option, and no remit investigate the 20 million or so properties in UK to check their surface water disposal. The various Acts firmly placed the onus on the householder to claim relief from SWD charges.

I assume you are attempting to get relief from the SWD charge backdated? As stated above there is absolutely no definition on how a company ' might reasonably be expected to know' a property should not be paying SWD. Especially as until a few months ago, even if they did know, the Ofwat guidance was that claims would not be backdated.

A different line might be to contact the Consumer Council For Water for their assistance. http://www.ccwater.org.uk/

Of course this is just fine and dandy for SWW.

That isn't the case. The irony of the situation is that charging for SWD or not, backdating that charge or not, it makes no difference to SWW's finances and profit.

That is because their revenue and profit is strictly controlled by Ofwat, so if they have any reduction in revenue from SWD charges they are allowed to increase other charges to compensate. So if they paid out, say £1 million for backdated claims this year, they would increase other charges by £1 million next year.

Indeed the argument against backdating in the Ofwat guidance was that new customers would in effect be paying for those backdated rebates, covering periods when they were not even water customers.

otterjpf

Thanks Cardew.

So what did you see in contacting CWW tohelp my case?