New ESA50!

satarical

benefitbaby wrote: »

For those who are interested the new regulations in full are here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/228/made

And for what it is worth I find it disgraceful that every time the Upper Tribunal define the meaning of a specific descriptor which the DWP doesn't like they merely change the law to remove the 'offensive bit'.
How much does this cost the taxpayer every time the government have to redraft legislation etc?

Note: These Regulations do not apply to a person who was sent a questionnaire (as to their capability for work or for work-related activity) before the date on which these Regulations come into force and in respect of whom a determination is made as to that persons capability for work after that date.

But then isn't that the same as people finding ways round things and the government closing the loopholes down?

Governments have been doing this for as long as I can remember! You surely don't expect them to sit idly back while the public abuse the legislation in such a way that it was never intended to be done?

Cpt.Scarlet

benefitbaby wrote: »

Note: These Regulations do not apply to a person who was sent a questionnaire (as to their capability for work or for work-related activity) before the date on which these Regulations come into force and in respect of whom a determination is made as to that persons capability for work after that date.

Actually they do!

It is only the descriptors that won't apply to an ESA50 issued before 28/01, the Regulations came into effect on the day and will be applied to all new decision irrelevant of when the ESA50 was issued.

HSS_2

OMG! A new low. HOW low will they go? I still haven't filled mine in. I can't face it. The deadline has come and gone. I nervously check my a/c every other week to see if they're still paying me Incap benefit. I just can't ring them or look at the forms. I have bi-polar so my claim will be all mental health based. But no way am I going to an ATOS exam. I have already decided, when they cut they me off, so be it. I've been advised that if I get a letter from my doc to say that going to an ATOS exam will make me worse, then they offer a home visit. My GP did write a letter for me, but they wanted £50 from me for it. I can't pay that, so no letter. I gave up at that point.

zzzLazyDaisy

benefitbaby wrote: »

For those who are interested the new regulations in full are here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/228/made

.

I never thought I would hear myself say this, but I feel strangely sorry for ATOS, as they are the ones who are going to get the flack for the assessments based on these new rules, when in fact it is the Government that makes the law.

satarical

HSS wrote: »

OMG! A new low. HOW low will they go? I still haven't filled mine in. I can't face it. The deadline has come and gone. I nervously check my a/c every other week to see if they're still paying me Incap benefit. I just can't ring them or look at the forms. I have bi-polar so my claim will be all mental health based. But no way am I going to an ATOS exam. I have already decided, when they cut they me off, so be it. I've been advised that if I get a letter from my doc to say that going to an ATOS exam will make me worse, then they offer a home visit. My GP did write a letter for me, but they wanted £50 from me for it. I can't pay that, so no letter. I gave up at that point.

You and many more like you!

schrodie

satarical wrote: »

Doing all of the preparation work for the appeal hearing will!

So clearly then you're not too bothered at loosing your claim.

rogerblack

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I never thought I would hear myself say this, but I feel strangely sorry for ATOS, as they are the ones who are going to get the flack for the assessments based on these new rules, when in fact it is the Government that makes the law.

I have repeatedly said that the ideal way to introduce harsh changes is to deflect much of the attention onto a disposable company, ideally foreign, on which failures can be blamed.

90% of the criticisms of ATOS are not properly aimed at ATOS.
That is - someone else questioning claimants on their disabilities, and assessing their meeting various descriptors based on those tests, with the same budget, employing many of the same people, will get similar results.

Budget - and indirectly time taken for the assessment, the descriptors, and ... are all governments doing.

Are ATOS failing in many instances - yes.
Should you report failures to the DWP, complain to ATOS, and even escalate the matter to the professional in questions standards body (the nursing and midwifery council for example for nurses) - YES!

But the system is inherently _NOT_ fit for the stated purpose.
The oft-stated one paragraph description of ESA, that seems to be used to form policy is something like:
"ESA is to help claimants who are likely to be able to work in the near future gain skills, better deal with their health condition, and move towards work, while supporting the most severely ill unconditionally'.

If you start out from the basis that this is what ESA actually is - then much recent policy is quite reasonable.
Of course contribution based ESA should be time-limited in the work-related group - people are likely to be able to work in the near future, and they are guaranteed not to be in poverty due to being able to claim ESA-income-related.
Of course you should be able to require people who are likely to be able to work in the near future to attend courses, or do other activities that will get them into work.
Of course you should time-limit 'permitted work at the higher level' to only a year.


The reality - where ESA does not in fact measure directly 'likelyness to be able to work in the near future' - but assumes it based on tick-box descriptors that may in practice mean that the person would never not qualify for ESA, due to a lifelong condition, and that there is no employer in the land that would employ them - is silently ignored, and policy formed on the basis of the above paragraph.

My common example is someone who due to a sports injury cannot place either arm into a upper shirt pocket, but can do every other task gets placed into the support group.

A claimant who uses a wheelchair, can't walk, he can slowly wheel himself over 200m. He can only work for 90 minutes at a time before becoming utterly exhausted. He has difficulty conveying or understanding more than simple messages from strangers. Once every couple of months has a sudden accident where he loses control of his bowels. Can barely operate a washing machine. Several hours a day he can't cope with trying to talk to new people.

Is fit for work.

satarical

schrodie wrote: »

So clearly then you're not too bothered at loosing your claim.

Not really, I have Pension Credit floating about in the backround instead.

I am intending to give them all - ATOS & the DWP a run for their money.

Just out to prove that a genuine case, such as mine is that is backed up in every way by professionals, that 3 years ago was such that I was placed in the SG, that the system can be forced to fail me.
Which simply goes to prove that even genuine claimants are told to find a job.

Obviously I will then have my fun with my MP and as many people as I can muster together that will listen and take note. (How is it possible that someone in my situation can be found fit for work?) I would only need to mention to my psychiatrist that I am feeling suicidal again, this time because my health conditions including mental health and diagnosed Dementia have not properly been considered. No doubt he will have his say with the DWP! My MP wasn't at all happy when he received a letter from him following the first assessment 3 years ago.

But at the end of the day I don't particularly care what they do, I will still continue to get the same amount with or without ESA through PC.

zzzLazyDaisy

satarical wrote: »

I would only need to mention my diagnosed Dementia

Oh my, that explains such a lot.........

JS477

satarical wrote: »

Not really, I have Pension Credit floating about in the backround instead.

I am intending to give them all - ATOS & the DWP a run for their money.

Run!!!!!! No chance.

However you may think your case is genuine but clearly Atos et al don't and given your reluctance to go to an appeal just speaks volumes!

I will say though that the MH descriptors are IMHO very tight cf. the physical ones.