Suspended During Grievance

Uncertain

Excellent comments from the above two posters and I would echo their praise of Lazy Daisy.

One point I would add......

As I understand it, you work for a very small business who's owner lives abroad and manages by "remote control"? This of course, in the real world, is very different from a large organisation with structures and HR procedures.

Clearly you are very unhappy with how things are at present so you need to decided what is the bottom line that would make you stay.

If you are clear on the bottom line then set it out in a very simple document that is as short as possible.

Your current document is, frankly, hopeless. It jumps around from (almost) how the company is run to who makes the tea!

Attend the meeting, or even have an informal one, and say politely and clearly that unless things change in the way you have indicated your resignation stands. See what they say.

Finally, I'm sorry but based on what you have posted here you have zero chance of winning either a discrimination or constructive dismissal claim. So, if it is your bottom line then either they agree or you look for another job.

FBaby

Last Thursday my child minder called and said the school informed her on collecting her that she was ill. I immediately informed my boss to which she asked me to take holiday.

Is this what it comes down to? Are you saying that your childminder who would normally have looked after your daughter after school until you picked her up called to say that she was ill? But not ill enough that the school had to call her before end of school day, so clearly not that poorly? Why couldn't your childminder look after her until you came to get her? Surely that's the advantage of a childminder over a nursery?

You say you immediately informed your boss and I'm sorry but it sounds to me like you saw this as an excuse to get out early yet be paid for it. Surely your priority should have been to tell the childminder to keep an eye on her and let you know how she was first. You say that it has happened before in the 15 months you work there, could it be that you've been a bit quick at using the excuse of your child being poorly to get out of work?

The way I am interpreting the Irish boss reaction is that he initially thought you might have been treated unfairly and expressed some sympathy, but after talking to your boss, he was told things that made him think differently?

I'm sorry to say, but I can totally understand how the company feels about you. It sounds like they have shown support by allowing you to take some time paid on previous occasions, but this was one time to many for an occasion that didn't justify it. They didn't tell you you couldn't go, they said to take time off for it, which is fair enough considering the above. You then go and disturbed the big boss for such an unsignificant event, acting all dramatic telling him that you are going to resign over this?

I really can't see what they have done wrong. From what I am interpreting, it sounds like they had a good reason to tell you that you needed to take time off on this occasion. You totally over-reacted and wasted the time of a director, you announced you wanted to resign, they said ok.

You now want to put a grievance and for them to give you a settlement figure because you resigned? Sorry I really don't get it.

kelly_borntoshop

WeakHeart wrote: »

zzzLazyDaisy is right. All the facts and thoughts buzzing around in your head (understandably) are irrelevant as you really do need to decide what you want. Only then can you determine what the next steps should be. You seem to have a need to understand their position beforehand. For reasons described by zzzLazyDaisy you can't approach them for a chat before your meeting. From what you have described this is where I think they stand if it helps.

Do they want you back? No. They made their position clear all along and when things blew up decided they wanted to accept your verbal resignation. Because of your further conversation they are now backtracking and proceeding in their own communications more cautiously. This is not to help you, it is so that they can cover their backs should this go further. When they sent you home and told you to wait for a phone call it was to stall while they sought advice and their written response to your grievance letter suggests that they are receiving this.

If you have to stay their preference will be for it to be in the admin assistant role with them doing as little as possible for you. They may learn that they have to meet certain obligations (reluctantly). They don't trust you and have said that as far as they are concerned the working relationship will be difficult. You are now a problem to them. From here on they are preparing for the meeting and will only do for you what they are advised they have to.

I note that in your list you put 'room for further growth in the role' suggesting that you are ambitious. Following recent events they do not see you progressing with them now if you do stay. Perhaps this will help you to reach a decision and leave you free to pursue your ambitions in a business where you are more valued, supported, encouraged and happier. If you decide that your goal is to remain employed in the short term (while you consider your future options) a compromise for all may be that you explore the option of the admin position.

If do decide you want to stay you would be wise to follow the advice from zzzlazyDaisy about how to conduct yourself in the meeting. Your aim would be to rescue the situation as best as possible by being assertive but non confrontational, choosing your arguments carefully, being willing to negotiate where appropriate and also helping them (through gritted teeth) to save face.

I hope that you manage to reach a decision and manage an outcome that is right for you so that you can set about securing a position where you can enjoy working again.

thank you. probably time to cut my losses and go. it would be nice to enjoy working again.

Uncertain

Sorry but you have written another long ramble about how badly the place is run.

Realistically little if any of this is going to change and certainly not overnight.

So what changes could be realistically be made quickly, that would make you feel you could continue working there? Make a short list of those, and only those, and see what they say.

Failing that, sit at home suspended on full pay until they get round to dismissing you and use the time to find alternative work.

There really are no other options.

kelly_borntoshop

Uncertain wrote: »

Sorry but you have written another long ramble about how badly the place is run.

Realistically little if any of this is going to change and certainly not overnight.

So what changes could be realistically be made quickly, that would make you feel you could continue working there? Make a short list of those, and only those, and see what they say.

Failing that, sit at home suspended on full pay until they get round to dismissing you and use the time to find alternative work.

There really are no other options.

i dont know

is asking them to review my position too much? one of the jobs needs to go really, the 3 jobs are killing me.

if i need holiday for my sons speech therapy one morning a month i dont think i will be able to honor my childminders holidays. there is no one else who can take him. so perhaps flexible working?

also illness, if i can unpaid leave only to arrange other childcare i cant honor this either. can i take unpaid leave for my children being sick?

how does one word this and not sound rediculous.

zzzLazyDaisy

kelly_borntoshop wrote: »

i told my boss and said i would let her know as soon as possible as to whether i would need time off the next day. which is when she asked me to put a days holiday in.

This is a reasonable response from your employer

at this point i wasnt aware of time off for emergency child illness. it was the breaking point for me.

Time off for emergencies is ONLY to make arrangements to have the child cared for, not to do the caring yourself. You have a childminder, so you would have difficulty showing that statutory time off was appropriate (also remember it is unpaid)

told i have to change my personality, i am moody (yes i have been diagnosed as depressed), i am the big all this and that, ideas above my station (would help if i knew my station),

Your employer clearly has a problem with you, and it seems the feelings are mutual....

my opinions are irrelevent?

Yes. To put it bluntly. The deal is that they are the employer and you are the employee. They call the shots. You are going to have to get used to this, or you are going to have a hard time in the world of work. Unless you can find a way to go self-employed?

.

You seem to think that this company should take notice of your opinions and advice, and treat you with the respect you deserve.

Is that a fair summary?

You may be right.

But the problem is that - in simple terms - the law says that an employer must comply with the terms of the contract, not breach employment protection legislation, and must not unlawfully discriminate against their employee. That pretty much sums it up. You don't have any other rights. And however 'unfair' or 'unreasonably' they might behave towards you in the common sense meaning of the term - on the information you have provided so far, they haven't done anything unlawful.

So it still comes back to whether you are prepared to continue working in that environment or not. Because it seems to me (rightly or wrongly) this employer is P'd off with you and isn't going to be falling over themselves to make you stay, or to accede to your demands if you do stay. You don't have the clout to make them change their ways, and on the information you have provided to date, you are unlikely to succeed in tribunal (unless they dismiss you and really mess that up, which is not beyond the bounds of possibility, but at the moment it is looking like you are going to hand them all the ammunition they need, on a plate.

Sorry, but you CANNOT change them to fit in with you.

You can only consider whether it is possible for you to change enough to fit in with them?

If you think this is possible, THEN you can attempt to negotiate the issues around childcare needs.

Uncertain

kelly_borntoshop wrote: »

if i need holiday for my sons speech therapy one morning a month i dont think i will be able to honor my childminders holidays. there is no one else who can take him. so perhaps flexible working?

also illness, if i can unpaid leave only to arrange other childcare i cant honor this either. can i take unpaid leave for my children being sick?

Legally an employer can tell you when you can and cannot take your holiday. Your right is simply to 28 days per year (or more if you contract so provides).

You have a right to REQUEST flexible working and for it to be CONSIDERED. That is not the same as a right to flexible working.

You have a right to SHORT periods of unpaid leave to deal with emergencies involving dependants including children. There is no hard and fast definition of short or, come to that, what constitutes an emergency. Generally this is taken to mean finding alternative childcare, not doing it yourself.

Anything beyond these basic rights requires flexibility and understanding from the employer. As I said before, providing they honour the basics, it is not unlawful discrimination to treat another member of staff better.

If you think they are not meeting the minimum the law requires then that IS a valid grievance.

If you simply want more as recognition of your worth as an employee then that is a matter for negotiation.

kelly_borntoshop

so perhaps i go to this meeting and say (as i have a few times now) that i am sorry, its all got really messy and eat humble pie.

you are right yes my company director does have a problem with me. she thinks i am too big for my boots i think. most of the creative work given to me is a revamp of what she has produced and sometimes i feel she thinks its insulting.

amost everyone in the company is in their 60's. the FM loves me. as last year progressed the others have said that its time to modernise, the MD has asked me to do a new ecommerce website, a new company brochure and to have a look at re-branding.

its hard for me to be given these tasks by one director yet not be valued by another.

so yes, the CD has a big problem with me. thats not going to change is it. i find it difficult to move forward with the creative tasks and meet the needs of the irish boss, the sales manager and the factory manager - whilst being subjected to ridicule by the company director who has me there only to fold post.

how best can i meet their needs here?

(i really appreciate all this advice and tough love - its the best advice i have had yet, thank you)

kelly_borntoshop

or to just resign?

FBaby

I think you have a unrealistic view of employment rights. I don't mean to offend by saying this, I did too until a few years back when I had to fight for my rights within the organisation. Before that, I had no reason to do so, so had no need to be aware of rules, rights, laws etc...

What I can say is that you are imagining you have many more rights than you actually have and by doing so, you might indeed express a bit of attitude that those higher than you could have an issue with.

In regards to you having beant backwards, shown flexibility etc..., is something that they can choose to recognise...or not... They don't owe you to do so though. After all, you could be doing so as much, if no more, for yourself that the company. It might have allowed you to gain experience and better skill mix that would give you a better chance for a future job. You were not forced or imposed to do so.

If issues such as work overload, lack of support etc... become an issue, you are expected to do something professional about it, not just moan. You shouldn't wait for things to build up before putting a grievance. You should have done so months earlier, showing as little emotions as possible, just providing facts. As it is, you waiting for an emotional event to trigger everything else, and frankly, that shows a lack of control.

Could it be that you have been taking for granted your employer's flexible approach to you have having time off for children's related matter and you went too far? Did your daughter actually scarlet fever? Why did you react so highly when you were told you would have to take the time off holiday the following day when you didn't even know at this point that you would need to look at your daughter?

Again, I think stomping your feet then and calling the big boss because you were 'upset' lacks complete professionalism and I expect it is more your reaction to the whole issue than the actual issue itself that triggered them not wanting to have you back.

Humble pie? Yes, I do think you should. There is a lesson to learn here. Bosses are not like boyfriends. You can't go all emotional on them because you've had enough of their behaviour and what little event was the one too many and then blame it on hormones. Learm from it, remember to always keep things in writing, raise issues as soon as they occur, professionally by discussing it with your boss, followed by an official grievance once you've checked all policies and rights and you've given your boss acceptable time to do something about it.