Car engine damage whilst in garage

jtm07

I have had my car BMW320d for about 6 months and all its services are up to date.
In November suddenly had a massive acceleration and engine screaming. I managed to stop the engine in a very short time (I would guess under 2 min) and called breakdown. The mechanic arrived and suspected the turbo had gone. He checked the oil level and there was little or no drop from top mark on dipstick and engine had not seized. Car removed to local garage that I had regularly used for a number of years..
The grage was busy but would check the car out before the weekend I spoke to them on the phone a couple of days later and yes it was the turbo, it would take a couple of days to get a replacement. They had had the engine running with the turbo bypassed and everything looked fine. After another few days I again contacted them they had replaced the turbo but the car would not start and the high pressure pumb was not providing any pressure, It would take a few days to replace/refurbish as they would have to send it off. After another few days the pump was replaced and the car would still not start. Should the check out the injectors I was asked. The next phone call I had from them was very worrying "could I call in and speak to the?" I did this and was shown the injectors. One was slightly damaged but the other was missing about 1 cm off the end. They had got the bits out of one cylinder but not the other. Were they to take the head off? At this time having gone so far and not wanting to waste what had already been done I said yes. They then found that one of the pistons was damaged as was one of the bores (I thinh they said burnt out). A valve was also burnt out and they suspected a con-rod was damaged. A replacement engine which they could not source was the chepest solution.
I spoke to a number of people including BMW and the breakdown company who all said the engine would never have started with this ammount of damage i.e. the engine was subsequently damaged when they ran it. I can see that the damage may be a result of damage due to the turbo going but surely with all the known problems with this they should have checked before starting the engine.
I still havent got my car and look set for a big bill for no outcome. Can anybody shed some light on my position?

motorguy

2 mins is a long time for the engine to be running as the turbo was disintegrating and i would think that was when the problems occured.

I've heard of diesel engines doing this and invariably it does end up with a new engine being needed.

I guess source a good second hand one, but yes, you're in for a large bill, but i very much doubt its anything much to do with the garage and i would doubt you'll have any success proving otherwise.

For what its worth, its got to the point whereby turbos on 320d's are becoming wear and tear items that you replace, and it is common for it to take the engine with it if it does expire

vaio

If the engine was running fine with the turbo bypassed then the damage wasn't done in the original incident and occurred whilst it was in the garage.

You then have to identify whether the damage was an unavoidable consequence of the investigation/repair or was a result of negligence by the garage.

This is going to be tricky and you'll need an investigation by an independent engineer as a starting point.

epninety

The damage is all typical for turbo oil seal failure.
The cost of stripping and inspecting the engine for damage would be pretty close to the cost of rebuilding it, the labour costs would easily outstrip the parts bill.
A partially strip and inspection (head off) might have spotted the problems, but still cost a similar amount to just fitting a new turbo and hoping for the best. A fractured con-rod wouldn't necessarily show without a full strip, and might well not fail straight away anyway - they do have a fatigue life, and this sort of problem can drastically shorten its life.

vaio

did you not see this bit in the OP?

jtm07 wrote: »

........ They had had the engine running with the turbo bypassed and everything looked fine......

Runaway diesels do often eat themselves with a big bang and bits of con rod on the floor but as it was running fine afterwards this didn't happen.

It was running fine, they turned it off and fitted the new turbo and then it wouldn't start, fuel pump failure was diagnosed but new pump didn't cure the fault, then they find bits of injector in the bores together with damage to valves, pistons & bores.

As above, it's going to be tricky but first step is an independent investigation (or just suck it up and pay for new engine)

tedted

i think the garage told you porkies to start with as on these engines you just cant bypass the turbo,the damage was there to start with and they where just chancing it hoping there wasnt damage

vaio

Wouldn't just running on open intake "bypass" the turbo and make it run like a NA engine?

No doubt they would be lots of flashing lights from the ECU but it should run well enough to tell if there was major internal mechanical damage

tedted

no the turbo is connected to the exhaust system ,has an oil supply and return plus sensors so if you tried to start the car with the inlet open the turbo is still trying to work.it sounds like the car ran away on its own oil not unknown on these

vaio

yep, turbo would be still spinning with an open inlet but how would that affect the running of the engine?

Surely the engine would still run exactly as many do if one of the turbo to engine pipes fails or falls off. Runs like a slug but still well enough to get home or identify major internal mechanical damage.

Only danger I can see is that with no back pressure the turbo might over-speed but with a knackered turbo that isn't an issue, and I'd guess the electronics would pick it up and limit engine speed/power to prevent damage

mattyprice4004

tedted wrote: »

no the turbo is connected to the exhaust system ,has an oil supply and return plus sensors so if you tried to start the car with the inlet open the turbo is still trying to work.it sounds like the car ran away on its own oil not unknown on these

You're wrong.

You CAN run a turbo diesel with no turbo connected, just take the exhaust and inlet manifolds off.

It won't sound pretty, but it'd run.

tedted

yes you can but what is the point with the amount of work involved,it is not a 1 hour to do this.if you removed the turbo it will apparent if it has a fault.injectors and high pressure pumps do not fail together just trying an engine but on a runaway they can as there is no governor controlling engine speed