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Recruiters have the cheek to moan!!
katie2511
Posts: 6 Forumite
UPDATE BELOW*************
I have just received a newsletter from a recruitment agency, which is basically a page long rant about what annoys her about jobseekers. This really didn't sit well with me, SO I replied with an equally "rant-like" response about what annoys job seekers about recruiters. Am I out of line? Who knows.
Please read below to make up your own mind.
________________________________________________________
Subject: Target your job search
From: *****************
To: *****************
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:32:51 +0000
January is working out to be a good month for us. Highest number of permanent vacancies placed with us by employers for 5 years. Great! I hear you cry! Well, not always. We have two problems.
1. People applying for everything
2. People deciding half way through the process this isn't for them, pulling out of the interview and not advising us or the employer why.
Our service to Clients is based on the ethos of saving their time. By covering the advertising, searching, profiling and shortlisting of candidates, employers can jump straight to the interview stage, knowing that applicants are pre-qualified and interested in working for them.
Our service to Work Seekers is to genuinely help them find a career/job that will pay the mortgage, fund a lifestyle and make them a more successful human being.
The perception of our industry is that this is money for old rope. I disagree. The majority of people who are out of work in the UK are eager to find that next job. Therefore applying for every job, hoping that the next no is one answer closer to a yes and hence making shortlisting laborious. The danger then is that employers and recruiters don't look at everyone; they become CV weary. You wouldn't want to lose out on your ideal job just because there were too many applicants. So - Stop. Think of finding a job in a similar way to finding a life partner. You wouldn't date everyone just in case, would you? No, you have a "type", people who share the same interests, or someone you're attracted to for whatever reason.
Our advice is to look carefully at the jobs you apply for. Show interest in it. All too often we contact people regarding a job application only to be told, "which one is it, I've applied for so many". It's a bit like being told on a date, " were you the one I asked out last night or last week?". The more targeted your search is, the less rejections you will have. We're not saying don't have ambition, but if you're looking to change direction - show how your experience can be relevant and DO re-write your CV. You will need to prove how you think your skills are relevant. It may not be obvious to the employer or recruiter. Isn't a couple of hours' investment in re-writing the CV or getting the application form right, worth the end result? A job you enjoy and pays the bills. Remember, you may end up spending more daylight hours with your new work colleagues than you do your family.
So, think quality applications over quantity of applications. Then show that you WANT that job. The competition is high. No-one is going to give you a job just because this is the 999th job you've applied for. They don't know and less sensitively don't care how many you've already applied for.
******’s tips for securing that job?
1. Show an interest from the start
2. Prepare - that's Pre-pare -do it before you send your CV and again before you go to the interview. Look at the website, talk to people who already work there, check out the press releases. This preparation may well tell you that you don't want to work there. Now, that IS a reason to cancel the interview and tell your recruiter why. This will help them find a better fit next time.
3. Turn up for the interview - believe it or not this happens from entry level jobs to management level. There may be a whole range of reasons why this happens, but isn't it just good manners to let people know? Even if the reason is " I've decided I don't want this job". Be honest.
4. When you're in the interview - look like you want to be there. Interviews are hard, not everyone has the gift of the gab. But you're there because you want the job, aren't you? So show some interest.
5. Follow up - whether it's the agency or the employer direct. Ask how you've done. If they've offered it to someone else ask why and when that person starts. Really miffed you didn't get it? Don't give up yet. Call a month after they have started - how are they doing? Someone is more likely to leave a new job within 3 months of starting than at any other time. Would you only ask the man/woman of your dreams out once?
I could rant about this all day, but you get the gist. Quality over quantity - research, prepare, show interest, turn up and follow up.
Good luck!
______________________________________________________________
Hello *****,
Thank you for your eye-opening newsletter.
Whilst I appreciate as an employment agency it can be very frustrating when people pull out of the interview process for no apparent reason, or people who apply for every job that they can find, you must also look at it from the job seekers point of view.
I speak from here about the people who actually want to work. It may seem like stating the obvious, but it needs to be said.
More often than not, we call or email an agency to say, yes we are eager and looking for work, these are the skills we have, here is our CV (or multiple CVs for each type of job) here is a copy of my passport, if requested. If we are lucky the agency spend a bit of time doing an interview asking us in great detail about our skills and experience and what we are looking for, once in a blue moon the agency ask us to complete a series of basic maths, English and IT tests.
After all this time, effort and money spent on travel or parking, we never hear from them again.
We peruse the job boards and review all the listings trying to assess whether we feel we could or could not do the job, spend time researching the company (if it is provided to us, which is rare) and submit our CVs. We are then met with an automated response "we receive a high number of CVs for each role and if you haven't heard from us in 7 days, assume you haven't got it"
We constantly call and email and are just met with the response, we have your CV on file, we will call you when we get something for you.
Not to mention, the spiel you get from recruiters about how every single client is a fantastic company to work for with fantastic team spirit and loads of room for growth within the company, and you turn up and find half the staff looking bored and the other half looking on the verge of a breakdown and the only way for the role to progress would be for you to take your managers job or leave.
It is no wonder people are applying for every single job. In the new recession-inflicted world where we are lucky to get a response to an application, and even more so to get anything other than and automated "no" at every corner, you cannot blame someone for trying to hedge their bets, increase their odds and improve their chances of finding a job. ANY job that will pay the bills.
When there are 100+ people applying for one role, I understand it makes it difficult to wade through the CVs, but I would imagine that is a rather large part of what a recruiter is paid to do.
But when someone goes to the time and effort of modifying their CV and covering letter to suit each position accordingly, its rather disheartening to think that it most likely hasn't even been glanced at by anyone, you can understand why the general job seeker gets frustrated.
Its perfectly possible to research and investigate each company before you even send your CV to the agency, but 99 out of 100 job postings will say "my client" and not the name of the company hiring, so this is not always possible.
Again, if you are lucky you will get a phone call from an agency saying you were lucky enough that your CV managed to pass the desk of the recruiter in one piece, and they think you may be suitable for the role. Excellent news. you spend 10 minutes on the phone discussing the role, everything sounds good so far, you wait to hear back from the agency, as they are now passing your CV to the client.
Once in while you may actually hear back from the agency. Mostly you hear back if the answer is yes, occasionally you will get a "no, but we will keep you on file" often they are never to be heard from again.
If you get a yes, hopefully by this time you can at least arrange an interview. Here the preparation really takes shape. I realise that not everyone does this, but most people who genuinely want to work will do this.
Interview is attended, everything is going well, you feel you have put your best face on and represented yourself really well.
You call the agency straight away to give your feedback, excitedly they tell you they will get onto the company and get their feedback for you and let you know about the next stage, but well done so far.
Then once again, you never hear from them again. You chase, they say they will let you know, and three weeks later you get an email if you are lucky saying you were unsuccessful but you will be "kept on file".
I think if anyone gets to interview stage
Now please please please don't think I'm attacking you or your agency personally, and I COMPLETELY understand that there are not enough hours in the day to find new clients to keep you in business, go through all the CVs you receive, call back all the people waiting to hear about interviews, call new potential job seekers, chase up company's for feedback, chase up candidates for feedback, conduct interviews for new candidates among the million other tasks required of a recruiter.
But please understand that looking for a job is a full time job too. And with the constant rejections and lack of information and lack of feedback and constantly chasing and constantly being told "we will keep you on file" I hope you can perhaps see that it is just as frustrating for us as it is for you, and there is no need to send an email out to all candidates ranting that we are trying our best to survive in the job market and we are still not good enough for you and moaning about the pitfalls that face every recruiter in this day and age, you can start to see how our sympathy may be limited for someone that at least has a job with money coming in every month to feed their families.
Best of Luck with your future endeavors, I will keep your details on file.
Katie Lynch.
_________________________________________________________________
I have received the following response from the Agency:
_________________________________________________________________
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: Target your job search
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:35:02 +0000
Hi Katie,
Thanks for taking time firstly to read our email and secondly to respond to it. Please, don’t think that that email was meant to attack work seekers. My aim was to try to help people understand one of the reasons why they may be getting rejections. People looking for work are the life blood of our company and we really do appreciate that. And yes, it’s our job to go through the applications. What I was trying to get across albeit not very eloquently, was give yourself the best possible chance.
I do understand your frustrations having been in that position myself. How can we take this forward? How can we make our service better for you? This is not a fatuous comment, I mean it. We do try to inform everyone of their outcome, although I’ll admit that it is a generic email in the main. No, we don’t make enough phone calls – for whatever reason on the day.
Would you be happy to write an open letter saying what you want from an agency? I’m happy to publish it on our blog as a guest blogger. We need to improve our industry and we can’t do it without honest feedback.
Kind regards,
XXXXXXX.
I have just received a newsletter from a recruitment agency, which is basically a page long rant about what annoys her about jobseekers. This really didn't sit well with me, SO I replied with an equally "rant-like" response about what annoys job seekers about recruiters. Am I out of line? Who knows.
Please read below to make up your own mind.
________________________________________________________
Subject: Target your job search
From: *****************
To: *****************
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:32:51 +0000
January is working out to be a good month for us. Highest number of permanent vacancies placed with us by employers for 5 years. Great! I hear you cry! Well, not always. We have two problems.
1. People applying for everything
2. People deciding half way through the process this isn't for them, pulling out of the interview and not advising us or the employer why.
Our service to Clients is based on the ethos of saving their time. By covering the advertising, searching, profiling and shortlisting of candidates, employers can jump straight to the interview stage, knowing that applicants are pre-qualified and interested in working for them.
Our service to Work Seekers is to genuinely help them find a career/job that will pay the mortgage, fund a lifestyle and make them a more successful human being.
The perception of our industry is that this is money for old rope. I disagree. The majority of people who are out of work in the UK are eager to find that next job. Therefore applying for every job, hoping that the next no is one answer closer to a yes and hence making shortlisting laborious. The danger then is that employers and recruiters don't look at everyone; they become CV weary. You wouldn't want to lose out on your ideal job just because there were too many applicants. So - Stop. Think of finding a job in a similar way to finding a life partner. You wouldn't date everyone just in case, would you? No, you have a "type", people who share the same interests, or someone you're attracted to for whatever reason.
Our advice is to look carefully at the jobs you apply for. Show interest in it. All too often we contact people regarding a job application only to be told, "which one is it, I've applied for so many". It's a bit like being told on a date, " were you the one I asked out last night or last week?". The more targeted your search is, the less rejections you will have. We're not saying don't have ambition, but if you're looking to change direction - show how your experience can be relevant and DO re-write your CV. You will need to prove how you think your skills are relevant. It may not be obvious to the employer or recruiter. Isn't a couple of hours' investment in re-writing the CV or getting the application form right, worth the end result? A job you enjoy and pays the bills. Remember, you may end up spending more daylight hours with your new work colleagues than you do your family.
So, think quality applications over quantity of applications. Then show that you WANT that job. The competition is high. No-one is going to give you a job just because this is the 999th job you've applied for. They don't know and less sensitively don't care how many you've already applied for.
******’s tips for securing that job?
1. Show an interest from the start
2. Prepare - that's Pre-pare -do it before you send your CV and again before you go to the interview. Look at the website, talk to people who already work there, check out the press releases. This preparation may well tell you that you don't want to work there. Now, that IS a reason to cancel the interview and tell your recruiter why. This will help them find a better fit next time.
3. Turn up for the interview - believe it or not this happens from entry level jobs to management level. There may be a whole range of reasons why this happens, but isn't it just good manners to let people know? Even if the reason is " I've decided I don't want this job". Be honest.
4. When you're in the interview - look like you want to be there. Interviews are hard, not everyone has the gift of the gab. But you're there because you want the job, aren't you? So show some interest.
5. Follow up - whether it's the agency or the employer direct. Ask how you've done. If they've offered it to someone else ask why and when that person starts. Really miffed you didn't get it? Don't give up yet. Call a month after they have started - how are they doing? Someone is more likely to leave a new job within 3 months of starting than at any other time. Would you only ask the man/woman of your dreams out once?
I could rant about this all day, but you get the gist. Quality over quantity - research, prepare, show interest, turn up and follow up.
Good luck!
______________________________________________________________
Hello *****,
Thank you for your eye-opening newsletter.
Whilst I appreciate as an employment agency it can be very frustrating when people pull out of the interview process for no apparent reason, or people who apply for every job that they can find, you must also look at it from the job seekers point of view.
I speak from here about the people who actually want to work. It may seem like stating the obvious, but it needs to be said.
More often than not, we call or email an agency to say, yes we are eager and looking for work, these are the skills we have, here is our CV (or multiple CVs for each type of job) here is a copy of my passport, if requested. If we are lucky the agency spend a bit of time doing an interview asking us in great detail about our skills and experience and what we are looking for, once in a blue moon the agency ask us to complete a series of basic maths, English and IT tests.
After all this time, effort and money spent on travel or parking, we never hear from them again.
We peruse the job boards and review all the listings trying to assess whether we feel we could or could not do the job, spend time researching the company (if it is provided to us, which is rare) and submit our CVs. We are then met with an automated response "we receive a high number of CVs for each role and if you haven't heard from us in 7 days, assume you haven't got it"
We constantly call and email and are just met with the response, we have your CV on file, we will call you when we get something for you.
Not to mention, the spiel you get from recruiters about how every single client is a fantastic company to work for with fantastic team spirit and loads of room for growth within the company, and you turn up and find half the staff looking bored and the other half looking on the verge of a breakdown and the only way for the role to progress would be for you to take your managers job or leave.
It is no wonder people are applying for every single job. In the new recession-inflicted world where we are lucky to get a response to an application, and even more so to get anything other than and automated "no" at every corner, you cannot blame someone for trying to hedge their bets, increase their odds and improve their chances of finding a job. ANY job that will pay the bills.
When there are 100+ people applying for one role, I understand it makes it difficult to wade through the CVs, but I would imagine that is a rather large part of what a recruiter is paid to do.
But when someone goes to the time and effort of modifying their CV and covering letter to suit each position accordingly, its rather disheartening to think that it most likely hasn't even been glanced at by anyone, you can understand why the general job seeker gets frustrated.
Its perfectly possible to research and investigate each company before you even send your CV to the agency, but 99 out of 100 job postings will say "my client" and not the name of the company hiring, so this is not always possible.
Again, if you are lucky you will get a phone call from an agency saying you were lucky enough that your CV managed to pass the desk of the recruiter in one piece, and they think you may be suitable for the role. Excellent news. you spend 10 minutes on the phone discussing the role, everything sounds good so far, you wait to hear back from the agency, as they are now passing your CV to the client.
Once in while you may actually hear back from the agency. Mostly you hear back if the answer is yes, occasionally you will get a "no, but we will keep you on file" often they are never to be heard from again.
If you get a yes, hopefully by this time you can at least arrange an interview. Here the preparation really takes shape. I realise that not everyone does this, but most people who genuinely want to work will do this.
Interview is attended, everything is going well, you feel you have put your best face on and represented yourself really well.
You call the agency straight away to give your feedback, excitedly they tell you they will get onto the company and get their feedback for you and let you know about the next stage, but well done so far.
Then once again, you never hear from them again. You chase, they say they will let you know, and three weeks later you get an email if you are lucky saying you were unsuccessful but you will be "kept on file".
I think if anyone gets to interview stage
Now please please please don't think I'm attacking you or your agency personally, and I COMPLETELY understand that there are not enough hours in the day to find new clients to keep you in business, go through all the CVs you receive, call back all the people waiting to hear about interviews, call new potential job seekers, chase up company's for feedback, chase up candidates for feedback, conduct interviews for new candidates among the million other tasks required of a recruiter.
But please understand that looking for a job is a full time job too. And with the constant rejections and lack of information and lack of feedback and constantly chasing and constantly being told "we will keep you on file" I hope you can perhaps see that it is just as frustrating for us as it is for you, and there is no need to send an email out to all candidates ranting that we are trying our best to survive in the job market and we are still not good enough for you and moaning about the pitfalls that face every recruiter in this day and age, you can start to see how our sympathy may be limited for someone that at least has a job with money coming in every month to feed their families.
Best of Luck with your future endeavors, I will keep your details on file.
Katie Lynch.
_________________________________________________________________
I have received the following response from the Agency:
_________________________________________________________________
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: Target your job search
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:35:02 +0000
Hi Katie,
Thanks for taking time firstly to read our email and secondly to respond to it. Please, don’t think that that email was meant to attack work seekers. My aim was to try to help people understand one of the reasons why they may be getting rejections. People looking for work are the life blood of our company and we really do appreciate that. And yes, it’s our job to go through the applications. What I was trying to get across albeit not very eloquently, was give yourself the best possible chance.
I do understand your frustrations having been in that position myself. How can we take this forward? How can we make our service better for you? This is not a fatuous comment, I mean it. We do try to inform everyone of their outcome, although I’ll admit that it is a generic email in the main. No, we don’t make enough phone calls – for whatever reason on the day.
Would you be happy to write an open letter saying what you want from an agency? I’m happy to publish it on our blog as a guest blogger. We need to improve our industry and we can’t do it without honest feedback.
Kind regards,
XXXXXXX.
0
Comments
-
Well said Katie. I agree with every word. It's hard to feel sympathy for recruitment consultants who demand 100% of your time and attention at the application/vetting stage then never contact you again. It's even harder to work yourself up for an interview and never hear back.
I'm not that happy with my current job but the only thing stopping me from looking for a new one is the thought of having to pimp myself out to recruitment consultants who don't give a !!!! about me.
I seriously doubt that you'll get a response, but I hope you feel better for writing it.£2 Savers Club 2016 #21 £14/£250
£2 Savers Club 2015 #8 £250£200 :j
Proud to be an OU graduate :j :j
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass but learning to dance in the rain0 -
Many recruitment agencies give the spiel that it's an excellent company to work for and when you go to the company for an interview it's a shed in the middle of someone's garden, I have actually had this happen to me. I asked the agency to take me off their books and to no longer arrange interviews for me.0
-
No agency helps job seekers at all.
They help or rather work for the client how pays them!
Good reply OP!!!We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Spot on Katie but you've missed three points which have happened to me:;)
You ring up an agency, they tell you to email your CV so you do this and you don't hear from them. You ring them again and they say they can't find your CV and to email it again and on and on it goes.
and
You apply for a job with agency. You get a phone call saying that job has gone but they have another suitable position available and need you to fill in their registration documents. You get to their office and they tell you that the post is no longer available but you might as well register with them anyway (while you sit there thinking "This is just an candidate collecting exercise).
and
You previously worked for the NHS in the Human Resources Department of a Primary Care Trust. An agency has seen a copy of your CV on a jobs website. They say that they have a vacancy in the same Primary Care Trust that you worked for in the same building. Great, you think - I really liked working there except because you worked in the Human Resources Department you know that they don't use agencies (they have their own agency) unless they are in a dire emergency. You ring your old manager to check if the policy has changed and it hasn't and there is no such post or vacancy. Again another CV gathering exercise!
Shortly after the third one I removed my CV from being on show on recruitment website having only ever been contacted about fake jobs from agencies, scams and one pervert! So be careful if you have private information on display!0 -
Many recruitment agencies give the spiel that it's an excellent company to work for and when you go to the company for an interview it's a shed in the middle of someone's garden, I have actually had this happen to me. I asked the agency to take me off their books and to no longer arrange interviews for me.
This is an excellent point. Noticed my email was still in draft format, so I've managed to slip in a paragrah to this effect!
I wonder if I will ever get a response....0 -
Whilst I agree with what you are saying, it was pretty stupid to send it. You've just eliminated any chance of getting a job through them, or indeed anybody else they circulate your rant to (recruitment is a pretty tight knit industry).0
-
Whilst I agree with what you are saying, it was pretty stupid to send it. You've just eliminated any chance of getting a job through them, or indeed anybody else they circulate your rant to (recruitment is a pretty tight knit industry).
Totally agree. It's one thing to have a rant on here, another to actually send it to the agency. Why on earth would you limit your chances in that way!! Like everything else there are good and bad recruiters, and good and bad candidates. You just labelled yourself for them...0 -
Whilst I agree with what you are saying, it was pretty stupid to send it. You've just eliminated any chance of getting a job through them, or indeed anybody else they circulate your rant to (recruitment is a pretty tight knit industry).
Whilst I happen to agree with you in the broadest sense, I would not send this to Reed for example, I know this particular recruitment agency, I am not in any way worried about the email I sent as they happen to be from an area I no longer live in but still get emails from. They are a single agency in a small town and are not part of a major chain, I have been registered with them for many years and they have never instigated the conversation, I follow up if I see something of interest, but they recruit primarily for an industry I no longer work in either.0 -
I just do not even know what kind of tin pot agency would send out an email like this.We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0
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I just do not even know what kind of tin pot agency would send out an email like this.
It does make you think, doesn't it?
They must be sitting around all day moaning.
Imagine if every business sent out a rant about the industry wide downside of their jobs and the parts of the job they hate in their clients or subscribers newsletter!0
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