MSE News: Government outlines flat-rate state pension

SnowMan

BobQ wrote: »

If you are not a supporter of Cameron, you are clearly either (a) naive or (b) one of those who win under the proposals.

Overall its saving money which is obviously handy for austerity purposes but not in the long term interest of most people.

It is good for low paid workers which I support but therre are many self employed people who have spent their lives without paying into a pension that will benefit in a way that many do not really deserve.

I don't do politics, I argue on the basis of the merits of the proposals.

There are some who gain and some who lose but the simplicity justifies that.

If you don't like the proposal then why not be constructive and say what you would do instead to reform the state pension system.

cos_2

Paul_Herring wrote: »

For your contracted out years, the formula is the above, with a 'rebate derived amount' subtracted for which there is (that I can find):
1) No clear definition
2) Certainly no numbers given

BobQ wrote: »

That was my conclusion too. Their definition of rebate derived amount is very unhelpful. Anyone know what it means?

I read 97 pages trying to find the same thing :mad:

harz99

SnowMan wrote: »

It really is massively simplifying the system. Everyone earns the same amount of pension each year - couldn't be simpler or fairer.

Except that it is not either, because existing pensioners on implementation day will not be brought under the same scheme.

It will create yet another tier of pensioners above those we already have, will still require means testing/Pension Credit for those existing pensioners and the government staff to deal with that.

The simple way would have been to move all existing pensioners onto the flat rate as well, with a simple capped safeguard for those receiving S2p on top, to ensure they don't lose that extra value.

casey_junior

harz99 wrote: »

Except that it is not either, because existing pensioners on implementation day will not be brought under the same scheme.

It will create yet another tier of pensioners above those we already have, will still require means testing/Pension Credit for those existing pensioners and the government staff to deal with that.

The simple way would have been to move all existing pensioners onto the flat rate as well, with a simple capped safeguard for those receiving S2p on top, to ensure they don't lose that extra value.

So those public service pensioners will get a massive increase in their basic state pension, no?

john1950

I took early retirement some time ago and will be 65 in January 2015 and eligible for the state pension. As far as I can see although I only have 34 contributing years, because I will be receiving state pension pre the new scheme the current 30 year requirement for a full state pension will apply to me.

The 35 years will be for the new scheme from 2017 right?

Current early retirement pension getting a bit tight, was looking forward to things easing a bit with the full state pension.

Just_landed

BobQ
but therre are many self employed people who have spent their lives without paying into a pension that will benefit in a way that many do not really deserve.[/QUOTE]

---

Are you saying the self employed who haven't paid any class 2 NI will get the full pension ?

:think:

KathysBoy

john1950 wrote: »

I took early retirement some time ago and will be 65 in January 2015 and eligible for the state pension. As far as I can see although I only have 34 contributing years, because I will be receiving state pension pre the new scheme the current 30 year requirement for a full state pension will apply to me.

The 35 years will be for the new scheme from 2017 right?

Current early retirement pension getting a bit tight, was looking forward to things easing a bit with the full state pension.

This is correct

roddydogs

So you will then need 35 yrs to get the pension (non means tested) , but someone whose never paid a penny, and has no other income will still get it, but it will be means tested--is that right.?

mrsenganbear

Search e-petitions and it will bring up a link to HMG e-petitions, and there is a petition on there for all current pensioners to get the new flat rate.
100,000 signatures will get a debate, but who knows what 10 times that will achieve?
If this issue does not directly affect you, it will probably affect someone you love.
So lets have some People Power!

SnowMan

mrsenganbear wrote: »

Search e-petitions and it will bring up a link to HMG e-petitions, and there is a petition on there for all current pensioners to get the new flat rate.
100,000 signatures will get a debate, but who knows what 10 times that will achieve?
If this issue does not directly affect you, it will probably affect someone you love.
So lets have some People Power!

I certainly won't be signing.

It will be really sad if groups put their own selfish interests above those of the population as a whole, and try to prevent those on lower incomes (the real beneficiaries from this) from getting a reasonable pension. You will also be trying to prevent an essential simplification of the pensions system.

To bring in pensioners would be unworkable because there would be no way of making it cost neutral for that group.

Existing pensioners keep their existing pensions. If there were ever an attempt to reduce the pensions or payments to existing pensioners then I would be happy to support you, but this petition is nonsense.

The proposals are roughly cost neutral for those of working age (currently below SPA in 2017 to be more precise), so to make that working age group, that includes some of the lowest paid, fund the extra pensions of pensioners would not be right.

So at the simplest level it's cost neutral for existing pensioners (whose pensions don't change) and cost neutral for post 2017 retirees.

In fact the proposals actually are probably a cost saver over the very long term in that the flat rate pension is probably below the average current state pension so post 2017 retirees could construct an argument to say they are the slight losers here.