right to see the kids

justlooking2012

Alpine wrote: »

Please provide the evidence of those facts. There is no denying judges have powers, but how many times have they been used?

The below link provide case reports from the appeal section of the family court so you will have to find the specific cases yourself, they are there as I have read several myself. Also any time that this action has been taken in the county court there will be no record of it as Family law is private and only reported in exceptional circumstances or if it reaches the court of appeal.
Feel free to now tell the OP it is worth it

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=fo6

DUTR

Alpine wrote: »

Then we have reached an impasse for I cannot prove something that has probably never happened.


I can only suggest that the lack of evidence (I would expect a Google search to return at least one UK case) weighs in my benefit that no mothers have been punished. I would have expected any case such as this to make the news due to the possible interest from groups like Fathers 4 Justice.


Recent articles from June 2012, do talk about a change in the law to allow judges to take away passports or stop mothers going out in the evening if they deny access to the children's father. That would also suggest that little or no punishments had been previously handed out because of the severity of a jail term or a fine and the impact it would have on the children. So instead they give the soft options that are not actually punishments and something like stopping the mother going out at night is unlikely to be policed as I doubt they would tag the mother.

I disagree, I only know of the 'system' as my friend had gone through similar, they did offer an agreement through cafcass and when he explained why he declined it, it made sense. He had the order and the Mothers have to and do adhere to it, the bullying has reduced to acting humbly now, on the other hand though he cannot decide he is not having the children on his weekends.
Permission has to be requested from the Mum if a 2 week holiday is desired to take the children away.
As another poster pointed out, these courts are private so google may not return anything , all the OP can do is follow the path and not give in based on hearsay.

Criminal Charges

• Depending on the severity of the offense, if the judge doesn't accept the reason given by the parent for breaking the order, the offending parent can be liable for criminal charges. The judge can find the parent in contempt of court because he acted in opposition to a court order. Contempt charges can result in jail time.

Read more: What Happens if You Disobey a Court Child Custody Order? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8170435_happens-court-child-custody-order.html#ixzz2IEWpJSlj

Alpine

justlooking2012 wrote: »

The below link provide case reports from the appeal section of the family court so you will have to find the specific cases yourself, they are there as I have read several myself. Also any time that this action has been taken in the county court there will be no record of it as Family law is private and only reported in exceptional circumstances or if it reaches the court of appeal.
Feel free to now tell the OP it is worth it

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=fo6

A quick search of the 2012 and 2011 page does not show any cases that relate to an NRP taking a PWC to court for denying them access or contact to the children under a previous order.


If you're a solicitor, perhaps you can shed some light on the correct terminology to find such cases?


You might find this helpful in determining if it is worth spending £'000s on obtaining a contact order:


"Previously the powers available to the court were very limited. Where a parent was in breach the court could find that parent to be in contempt of court and impose a fine or imprisonment. The court could also consider transferring a child’s residence from the parent in breach to the other parent. But these extreme sanctions have been used very sparingly as they are likely to impact adversely on the welfare of the child at the centre of the dispute."


source: http://www.marsdenrawsthorn.com/news/26


At this point, you have still not provided any evidence that a breached contact order has resulted in the PWC being truly punished, either by being sent to prison or by way of a fine.

Alpine

DUTR wrote: »

I disagree, I only know of the 'system' as my friend had gone through similar, they did offer an agreement through cafcass and when he explained why he declined it, it made sense. He had the order and the Mothers have to and do adhere to it, the bullying has reduced to acting humbly now, on the other hand though he cannot decide he is not having the children on his weekends.
Permission has to be requested from the Mum if a 2 week holiday is desired to take the children away.

You're missing the point. If the mother decides to mess the father around in the future, there is no real sanction the court will place upon her, instead the solicitors will make more money and the court will at most inconvenience her.

DUTR wrote: »

Read more: What Happens if You Disobey a Court Child Custody Order? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8170435_happens-court-child-custody-order.html#ixzz2IEWpJSlj

Those are US law articles. I'm assuming the OP is UK based as this is a predominantly UK forum.

justlooking2012

I do not have to provide any evidence as quite frankly if you wish to live in ignorance then thats fine by me, but please stop spreading it to people who are having disputes over there children and making them think that it is pointless as it is not.
Judges can and have used these powers, if you read through the cases you will find evidence of this but im not going to do it for you as I have other things to do.
There will be no record of judges doing this in the county courts/magistrates courts as these are Children act law/family law proceedings and are therefore not reported. Also they are pretty run of the mill so no paper would really want to report them.

justlooking2012

Alpine wrote: »

You're missing the point. If the mother decides to mess the father around in the future, there is no real sanction the court will place upon her, instead the solicitors will make more money and the court will at most inconvenience her.

Wrong again, do you have any experience of this or are you just assuming

DUTR

Alpine wrote: »

You're missing the point. If the mother decides to mess the father around in the future, there is no real sanction the court will place upon her, instead the solicitors will make more money and the court will at most inconvenience her.




Those are US law articles. I'm assuming the OP is UK based as this is a predominantly UK forum.

I'm not missing the point, I already explained my friends case, perhaps he chose to have children with a woman who didn't intend to become a scummy mummy, but they certainly play ball, the OP should not give up.
It's one reason I show no sympathy when episodes get extreme and reach the headlines of the newspapers.
But the OP should fight for his rights for his children and himself, who knows the mum may change her tune.

Alpine

justlooking2012 wrote: »

I do not have to provide any evidence as quite frankly if you wish to live in ignorance then thats fine by me, but please stop spreading it to people who are having disputes over there children and making them think that it is pointless as it is not.
Judges can and have used these powers, if you read through the cases you will find evidence of this but im not going to do it for you as I have other things to do.
There will be no record of judges doing this in the county courts/magistrates courts as these are Children act law/family law proceedings and are therefore not reported. Also they are pretty run of the mill so no paper would really want to report them.

You know there is evidence there, but you refuse to provide it. I'm not the one being unhelpful.


I have no doubt that courts do create contact orders, at great expense to the NRP, and it is only through the willingness of the PWC that the NRP can maintain contact. Should that willingness disappear and the contact ceases, the courts have powers they will do everything they can to avoid using. So much so they introduced lesser punishments (that aren't) so they can be seen to be doing something.


OP, which ever way you turn you will be faced with requiring a willing PWC in order to see your children. How you achieve it is up to you and the depths of your pockets. You can spend money on a court contact order, or you can try everything you can to be on amicable terms with your ex and rise above any baiting she does.

justlooking2012

Alpine wrote: »

You know there is evidence there, but you refuse to provide it. I'm not the one being unhelpful.

I already know the answer myself so im not trawling through hundreds of cases. I have advised the OP and told them basically to see a solicitor. You have basically said forget it, its pointless. I simply do not have the time to trawl through those cases

I have no doubt that courts do create contact orders, at great expense to the NRP, and it is only through the willingness of the PWC that the NRP can maintain contact. Should that willingness disappear and the contact ceases, the courts have powers they will do everything they can to avoid using. So much so they introduced lesser punishments (that aren't) so they can be seen to be doing something.


OP, which ever way you turn you will be faced with requiring a willing PWC in order to see your children. How you achieve it is up to you and the depths of your pockets. You can spend money on a court contact order, or you can try everything you can to be on amicable terms with your ex and rise above any baiting she does.

YOU ARE WRONG, seriously unless you know instead of spouting rubbish then keep it shut as you are giving someone wrong advice about a serious subject. I have been through the courts and I now have residence of my children, so I know what im talking about.
Also its perfectly viable for someone to act for themselves in private family law proceedings.

DUTR

justlooking2012 wrote: »

YOU ARE WRONG, seriously unless you know instead of spouting rubbish then keep it shut as you are giving someone wrong advice about a serious subject. I have been through the courts and I now have residence of my children, so I know what im talking about.
Also its perfectly viable for someone to act for themselves in private family law proceedings.

That is what my mate done (represented himself) and the courts ruled in his favour, he does not have residence, but was not seeking that.
Also a previous GF the father took residence of the youngest one and in effect she can't do anything about it, but pay csa herself, she did not take the father to court but does miss her son.