Third Party Top Up Fee - what if you can't pay?

lilyboo2

Has anyone had anyrecent experience of tackling the issue of “third party top up fees”? We have a very complicated case remy mother. Briefly, she was turned out of her original home because we werecomplaining about her care. They packed her up and sent her to their sisterhome - a dementia unit .My mother was not assessed to be in such a unit andSocial Services were not told about her move. She was very distressed by the moveand her new surroundings. After 3 weeks in the Dementia Unit, we found her anew home and contacted SS to inform them. We were told that they would meet allthe fees. We had nothing in writing and my mother was not visited by them;conversations were over the phone. We moved my mother into the new home. Threemonths later SS finally made contact to make an assessment of her needs and mysister was asked to sign a form re paying a top up fee. Scared that this wouldaffect my mother’s stay in the home (our mother was now very happy andsettled), she signed the form not realising the full implication. She (ourfamily) does not have the means to pay the top up fee it, but was confident thatSS would meet the cost as we were told initially. We have written several lettersto SS about my Mum’s fees asking SS to meet the cost as we were told initially.The third party bill for my mother is mounting; we’re being pursed for themoney and have been told that my mother will have to move to a more affordablehome. Our mother has become increasing frail and we feel that a move will bedetrimental. Any advice would be most helpful as we’re becoming very stressedand angry by the situation. Would appreciate any advice on what to do. Thanks

miduck

Does she have any assets? Is the new home a private one, and are the rates higher than those of the former home? Has she been assessed as requiring continuing health care?

pineapple123

Sorry to hear about your Mothers situation. This is a real problem when someone needs and has to rely on NHS/Local Social Services funded Nursing home care. There is a limit to the amount of money an individual can recieve for a placement, unfortuatly some of the 'better' care homes are not within the set buget limits so family are asked to top up fees especially as some nursing homes can cost in excess of £1,200 a week where as others run by charitable trusts etc cost £500 for shared room, social services have only a limited pot of money available for everything so want value for money however this does not help you.
Your choices seem to be pay up somehow, make an appeal this can be successful depending on care home cost ie more likely if fee is only couple hundred pounds more than they allow and this varies on area you live in, has to go before a panel and have good reason for them to agree to pay higher fees or you could look into getting full CHC funding (based on health needs not care) or sorry maybe having to look for another home (try all other avenues first)
Good luck.

lilyboo2

miduck wrote: »

Does she have any assets? Is the new home a private one, and are the rates higher than those of the former home? Has she been assessed as requiring continuing health care?

Thanks for your reply. No she doesn't have any assets; the rates are higher than the former home.This one is run by a charity. Social Services told us that this home was in the same band as her former home. When we moved her in we find that this isn't the case. We have made a complaint, but not getting very far.

Mojisola

lilyboo2 wrote: »

Threemonths later SS finally made contact to make an assessment of her needs and mysister was asked to sign a form re paying a top up fee. Scared that this wouldaffect my mother’s stay in the home (our mother was now very happy andsettled), she signed the form not realising the full implication.

This is a serious issue for her. She entered a contract and the debt will be chased up.

Your sister should be taking advice about the debt.

MissMoneypenny

pineapple123 wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your Mothers situation. This is a real problem when someone needs and has to rely on NHS/Local Social Services funded Nursing home care.

True, there are homes and then there are homes. I saw that when I use to take me dog in as a PAT dog. Which is why I stopped my mother when my sister was trying to get our mother to sign her house over to 'avoid care home fees'. It's also why I have said on here before, do not sign your home over to avoid care home fees; you will need that money more than ever when you are old.

pineapple123 wrote: »

There is a limit to the amount of money an individual can recieve for a placement, unfortuatly some of the 'better' care homes are not within the set buget limits so family are asked to top up fees especially as some nursing homes can cost in excess of £1,200 a week

My mother's (good) home was over 1k a week. No shared bathroom or toilet for my mother as she had the money to have an en suite.

It's not only care home fees though, as state coverage is very basic i.e. my mother needed a specially adapted wheelchair to make her life a lot easier and it was not available from the state.

Lilyboo, I suggest legal advice too; but the top up fees will still be mounting and the legal route can be long and you still might not get the outcome you wish for.

If any of your family took your mother's money/property etc to avoid care home fees, then now might be a good time to get that money returned.

pmlindyloo

I should be very much inclined to get your local MP involved in this.

You have several points that need to be raised with him/her.

1. Your mother was moved to an unsuitable home ( dementia unit) without an assessment.

2. You were informed by Social Services that the fees would be met by them.

3. From your comments it seems as if the very first home was not providing reasonable care for your mother and you may have a complaint against them.

4. It could be argued that your sister signed a contract ' under stress'.

Despite what is believed Social Services have considerable negotiating power with care homes as regards fees and they should have approached the home and negotiated the fees.

Moving your mother at this time would be extremely detrimental and this point must be stressed.

If your MP cannot help in this situation then you may need to find a charity to assist you. Has your mum or any member of her family a connection with the armed forces? Did she work in a profession that has a benevolent fund?

Do some googling to see if there is a charity that will help but.......do visit your MP. I had to write to all and sundry before I got help for my mum. You need to be very determined. Good luck!

xylophone

http://www.housingcare.org/downloads/kbase/2820.pdf
might be worth a read.

pineapple123

Despite what is believed Social Services have considerable negotiating power with care homes as regards fees and they should have approached the home and negotiated the fees.
Social services can and do negotiate care home fees, sometimes there is quite a difference in what they pay and what a nursing home charges self funded individuals.

Moving your mother at this time would be extremely detrimental and this point must be stressed.
Try and get a care manager to come out and assess mum and help fight your corner.

lilyboo2

Mojisola wrote: »

This is a serious issue for her. She entered a contract and the debt will be chased up.

Your sister should be taking advice about the debt.

You're right - it is serious and we've been very worried as neither my sister or the rest of the family are in a position to pay. We believed the Social Worker when he said that the home was in the same band as the previous home and would not require a top up fee. We moved my mother there based on that information. When my sister was asked to sign the form, letters of complaint had been written and we really thought that the situation would be resolved and they honour what the Social Worker (who seems to have disappeared!) to us.

lilyboo2

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

True, there are homes and then there are homes. I saw that when I use to take me dog in as a PAT dog. Which is why I stopped my mother when my sister was trying to get our mother to sign her house over to 'avoid care home fees'. It's also why I have said on here before, do not sign your home over to avoid care home fees; you will need that money more than ever when you are old.



My mother's (good) home was over 1k a week. No shared bathroom or toilet for my mother as she had the money to have an en suite.

It's not only care home fees though, as state coverage is very basic i.e. my mother needed a specially adapted wheelchair to make her life a lot easier and it was not available from the state.

Lilyboo, I suggest legal advice too; but the top up fees will still be mounting and the legal route can be long and you still might not get the outcome you wish for.

If any of your family took your mother's money/property etc to avoid care home fees, then now might be a good time to get that money returned.

My mother worked hard all her life, but apart from savings has little assets. She currently pays towards her care and is paying more for this home than the previous home, but we cannot meet the top up fee, hich would be an extra £150+ per week on top.