Counterfeit Product - Claiming money back

wildmanmatt

Hi,

I'll put the question here with all the information about the situation below...

The question is:
1. Should I return the goods to the company with the Airsure cost of £95.04 if they email back and confirm that they will issue a full refund of £429.60?
2. If they don't confirm that they will issue a refund for that amount, then would I be better off claiming under Section 75?
3. If I do return the goods after receiving confirmation and there is no refund issued, am I covered by Section 75 for the full amount of £429.60? I paid with my Barclaycard.
4. If I receive a partial refund, am I covered by Section 75 for the remainder up to £429.60?
5. Should I not return the goods and just make a claim under Section 75?

I bought some DVD box sets from a .co.uk website - £317 for 3 box sets marketed as digitally remastered and enhanced for quality.

When they arrived, the packaging clearly wasn't authentic and the DVDs were standard home DVDs that had been burned (they were purple like standard DVDs rather than silver like properly produced ones).

Having checked the shows on the DVDs, 2 of them are just recorded from TV (based on the quality and the logos on screen, I think taken from american TV possibly to VHS and then converted to DVD - it's awful... pixelated and completely unacceptable) and the third appears to be copied from commercial DVDs, again not great quality, but better than the other 2.

Around 1/3 - 1/4 of the DVDs also don't play.

I contacted the website through their contact us form and received the following response:

For this particular TV Series, there is no such thing as an 'original' DVD Box Set as it was never released by the original studio. Therefore they are not the same type of product you would find at Amazon.com or Best Buy.

This is a collector's aftermarket collection, and is the only collection available for this TV Series. Our customers are true fans of the show and are usually happy as it is their only option to have a FULL collection of the series.

These are not copies as there is nothing available on the market to "copy".

I responded and said that there certainly are original sets of the DVDs (which there are) and disputed the quality as it in no way was as stated on the website. I said that the only option was a full refund. I said that should the company wish to have the DVDs collected I would make them available.

Here is the response I received:

I completely understand and your satisfaction is always our #1 priority.

Here are your detailed return instructions:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Please return the entire DVD Collection to the following address:
<address removed> Canada
2. Please use Royal Mail (Local Post Office) for returns.

DO NOT RETURN VIA UPS OR FEDEX
Any returns shipped via UPS or FEDEX will NOT be accepted.

3. IMPORTANT: When returning a product from the U.S.A. or International location, write the following statement on the box:

Goods Returning to Original Shipper
Defective Item, No Commercial Value
Value for Customs $1 USD

4. Include your Order # inside the Return. Take the DVD box set and place it inside the original package. Then place that package, into a bubble mailer or your own packaging.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your cooperation in this matter.

I responded saying that it would cost £95.04 to return the DVDs to Canada (the total weight is just under 6kg and the max I can send by Royal Mail is 2kg, so splitting it into 3 by Airsure (because I need proof of delivery) at £31.68 each. I also requested the £17.27 that I paid in customs duties to be refunded.

I asked the company to confirm that if I returned the DVDs that they would issue a full refund of £429.60.

Thanks for reading my missive!

Matt

MamaMoo_2

I would be having a word with your bank/cc provider (assuming you paid by debit/credit card) as £90 is a lot to pay for returns. They have an unreasonable returns process (can only return via a specific courier, and other returns will be refused?)
Have a chat to your bank beforehand, explaining that you don't have this £90 odd for return postage to spare. (Even if you do, why should you?!)

wildmanmatt

Yep, I paid by my Barclaycard Visa - I spoke to them and they said that they wouldn't issue a chargeback because I have been given returns instructions. I asked for a section 75 claim form and they advised that I was free to complete the claim form, but they couldn't guarantee the outcome because I haven't returned the goods.

wildmanmatt

I looked up the returns address that I was given and it's a UPS store in Toronto. Which I guess is why they don't want returns by anything but normal post.

visidigi

Call barclaycard back and inform them under UK law it is illegal to ship countefeit goods out of the country (which it is).

BTW - Royal Mail Airsure could potentially end up being carried to the US via Parcelforce who don't actually carry it, an international carrier is used, a good chance that would be FedEx.

visidigi

wildmanmatt wrote: »

I looked up the returns address that I was given and it's a UPS store in Toronto. Which I guess is why they don't want returns by anything but normal post.

A UPS store is a bit like a Post Office for Courier Services - usually used for a PO BOX or equivalent.

Thats not the reason they don't want you to use UPS or FedEx - Duties and Taxes delivered post-delivery is the problem there (that and as they are counterfeit they could be seized).

Btw, 1USD declaration on the commercial documents is fraud - you are liable for the value to be correctly declared, if caught it would be your name on the documents - not the counterfeiter.

wealdroam

visidigi wrote: »

Btw, 1USD declaration on the commercial documents is fraud - you are liable for the value to be correctly declared, if caught it would be your name on the documents - not the counterfeiter.

I do understand what you are saying Visidigi, but in this case the goods are faulty and therefore of no commercial value.

mo786uk

Well firstly the term counterfeit needs to be defined properly. The 2 relevant forms here are tardemarks and copyright. I woudl suggest that copyright is the most relevant here and assuming the TV show was amde in the last few years (up to 50 - 70 I think) then it will likely have copyright and if they are selling unofficial copies then its a breach of copyright


The issue from your perspective though is that they are not as described (if the implication is that they were advertised as official dvds) and not of satifactory quality (they dont work).

So you have 2 grounds potentially for a S75 claim.

You coudl send the items back and if you dont get a full refund just go after the CC company for it all.

arcon5

If they are a Canadian company then wouldn't it be governed by their laws?

As for sending them back.. I could be wrong, but I though it was illegal to send counterfeit goods out of the country?

wealdroam

For a Section 75 claim, my understanding is that each item must be of £100.

You say three boxed sets cost £317.00.

Does that include postage?

Probably reasonable to treat each boxed set as a single item, so did each boxed set cost over £100 each?

visidigi

wealdroam wrote: »

I do understand what you are saying Visidigi, but in this case the goods are faulty and therefore of no commercial value.

No they aren't.

As the OP indicated, there are disc sets for these shows available, if these are showing programs recorded off the TV, with TV logos on screen etc then they are counterfeit, as they are not released by the studio that produced the programs.