John Lewis......should be allowed :)

snowmen

Turning down the opportunity to create up to 1500 jobs in a recession???
Seems such a simple decision to me.
I am actually surprised that John Lewis stuck it out for as long as they did.

And as for taking people out of belfast - I thought that would be a good idea due to the traffic and car parking charges. If John Lewis really drew that many people to it then surely the net result would be that belfast would need to do something to be more competitive - and this would only be good for the customer.

irishjohn

I applaud Mr Attwood for attempting to hold back the decline of the town centres. Should he succeed his place in history is guaranteed. But it has not succeeded elsewhere. The growth of car ownership has led to out of town shopping worldwide and the only way city centres have survived is by developing specialist functions.

Developing the new Exchange will probably lead to the decline of Victoria Sq just as the development of Victoria Sq has led to the decline of Castlecourt. That's just what happens - and there is evidence everywhere.

John Lewis do have city centre stores - most of which are long established and are probably in wholly owned freehold buildings.

In Birmingham - no John Lewis - they chose to develop some 10 miles out - in Solihull.

As a modern shopper - I will use the Internet as much as possible. If John Lewis come to Sprucefield - it will help with larger items and my wish to look and touch, and I may buy direct from the store. If however they choose to move south, Dundalk perhaps, then I will still be happy to take that drive to look and touch, and then decide which is my best option.

It seems to me that the Northern Ireland Retail Plan is to ignore the retail story elsewhere and assume it does not apply to us ( a familiar pattern across all areas of our lives here) - instead lets not encourage our local businesses to rise to the challenge and be competitive - let's just stifle that competition and banish it from out shores, by trying to introduce rules to make them set aside their vast experience and do things our way or no way.

waltsalt

I agree with the 'Attwood is a Mentalist' camp. The big out-of-town shopping complexes in the USA that usually have a Sears and JC Penny and the like are class. You can have a good day out going to them. They are all well served by public transport so a lack of car is never a problem.

If the planning application had been for building a development right slap-bang in the middle of the countryside you'd understand the reasoning. But Sprucefield is already a built up area with good roads. Protecting the old fashioned town centres just because they were the norm in the past is sheer madness.

motorguy

waltsalt wrote: »

I agree with the 'Attwood is a Mentalist' camp. The big out-of-town shopping complexes in the USA that usually have a Sears and JC Penny and the like are class. You can have a good day out going to them. They are all well served by public transport so a lack of car is never a problem.

If the planning application had been for building a development right slap-bang in the middle of the countryside you'd understand the reasoning. But Sprucefield is already a built up area with good roads. Protecting the old fashioned town centres just because they were the norm in the past is sheer madness.

What about the impact that out of town shopping centres, big supermarkets and the internet has had on our highstreets?

If we add yet another supercentre, then the revenue that they need to generate will come predominantly from local businesses on our high streets instead?

Most towns have a high percentage of empty units as it is, something like this will only add to it. If we gain 1500 jobs, but lose as many because local high street shops close, then what have we gained?

Also, another thing to bear in mind. Statistically, if you buy from a locally owned business, something like 70% of that revenue will filter back down to the local economy. Buy from one of these big corporations like John Lewis, ASDA, Tesco, etc, and just 10% of that money benefits the local economy - the rest is sucked back to some bank account of a huge corporation on which they will pay little of no tax.

Be careful what you wish for - because you might just get it.

motorguy

irishjohn wrote: »

It seems to me that the Northern Ireland Retail Plan is to ignore the retail story elsewhere and assume it does not apply to us ( a familiar pattern across all areas of our lives here) - instead lets not encourage our local businesses to rise to the challenge and be competitive - let's just stifle that competition and banish it from out shores, by trying to introduce rules to make them set aside their vast experience and do things our way or no way.

Local businesses predominantly CANNOT rise to the challenge, as they dont get the incentives that these big chains get. Also, your local small business will have the VAT man and the TAX man crawling all over them when we see the likes of Starbucks can simply chose not to pay tax.

But certainly, these big chains building out of town centres are a great way to decimate our high streets and see our hard earned cash sucked out of the economy and into some corporations bank account in the cayman islands.

spendaholiceejit

I love John Lewis and I admittedly do shop online occasionally, but I have to agree with the other posters who are pointing out the negative aspects. Having friends and family working for smaller stores in the locality, I think the JL store would have forced the closure of some of the in-town retailers. Leading to more empty units in the streets, and less vibrancy and unique stores. The jobs it would have been creating with one hand, it would have been taking them away with the other. There's only so much money people can spend.

John Lewis is a juggernaut that our home-grown companies just cannot compete with.

Maybe when we're on our feet a little better, NI will be ready for John Lewis.

NAR

Town centre shops are struggling for two reasons, the recession and on-line shopping. We are far from the end of the recession, which is bad news for the traders. However John Lewis coming to Northern Ireland would be like a breath of fresh air and certainly would not be competition for the struggling town centre shops, because simply they sell different goods.
Hopefully the Executive will have the good sense to overturn Attwood's decision. He and his colleagues should be doing much more to encourage town centre shopping, like offering free parking.

waltsalt

motorguy wrote: »

What about the impact that out of town shopping centres, big supermarkets and the internet has had on our highstreets?

If we add yet another supercentre, then the revenue that they need to generate will come predominantly from local businesses on our high streets instead?

Most towns have a high percentage of empty units as it is, something like this will only add to it. If we gain 1500 jobs, but lose as many because local high street shops close, then what have we gained?

Also, another thing to bear in mind. Statistically, if you buy from a locally owned business, something like 70% of that revenue will filter back down to the local economy. Buy from one of these big corporations like John Lewis, ASDA, Tesco, etc, and just 10% of that money benefits the local economy - the rest is sucked back to some bank account of a huge corporation on which they will pay little of no tax.

Be careful what you wish for - because you might just get it.

I know there are loads of people that would disagree, but I really don't care about town centre shopping. I think it's inconvenient and old fashioned. All the empty units could be repurposed for office space or accommodation.

As for shops going out of business, I guess if they can't compete then they need to diversify and offer customers something different. They need to evolve instead of just existing and plodding on. And failing that then the owners and workers should move away from retail and work elsewhere.

Just my opinion.

motorguy

NAR wrote: »

Town centre shops are struggling for two reasons, the recession and on-line shopping.

No. They're struggling because of huge supermarkets, out of town shopping centres, on-line shopping and to an extent, the recession.

NAR wrote: »

We are far from the end of the recession, which is bad news for the traders. However John Lewis coming to Northern Ireland would be like a breath of fresh air and certainly would not be competition for the struggling town centre shops, because simply they sell different goods.

You're missing the point - they're proposing 19 other shops around the new john lewis - the combination of which will draw even more customers from our town centres.

Which is all very well, but then lets not complain when even more local businesses close.

irishjohn

motorguy wrote: »

Local businesses predominantly CANNOT rise to the challenge, as they dont get the incentives that these big chains get. Also, your local small business will have the VAT man and the TAX man crawling all over them when we see the likes of Starbucks can simply chose not to pay tax.

But certainly, these big chains building out of town centres are a great way to decimate our high streets and see our hard earned cash sucked out of the economy and into some corporations bank account in the cayman islands.

Cannot remember all the details but if I remember right the Finance Minister has surcharged the big boys in order to assist the small businesses. They have to rise to the challenge and find some way of bringing a product to market - the bigger businesses are here to stay and yes some of these are avoiding tax. I will choose a small independent over a big national if they can make it a good experience.