How best to deal with Orange/EE?

SophieL_2

Hi

First of all, apologies for making my first post one asking for advice! I'm really concerned about what to do in this situation with Orange....I'll try to abbreviate the ridiculously convoluted facts!

We took out a contract with Orange in March 2012 (who then changed to EE around Oct/Nov?). This was through a broker (it's a business contract) who promised lower bills than out O2 ones.

The bills started coming in each month extremely high - between £150 & £200. I tried repeatedly contacting Simon (the broker) as part of the deal was that he would deal with any queries on our behalf.

He was pretty much unreachable. Finally my husband managed to speak to him & he said Orange had changed their privacy policies, we needed to fill in X form for him to be able to deal with them on our behalf.

I started dealing with Orange myself and seemed to get somewhere. However, our phones were being regularly cut off due to the disputed bills being unpaid and we were not allowed to speak to Customer Services until the bills were paid each time. SO we had to pay the extortionate bills.

In October, I finally managed to get somebody to sort out that they had made a mistake in billing. Orange blamed Simon, Simon blamed Orange, but the free texts had been assigned to only the lead phone, as opposed to being shared as they should have been. THis had resulted in me (the heavy texter) being charged for all my texts. Orange readily agreed that this was wrong, changed it & promised to recalculate the bills all the way back to the beginning of the contract.

Our phones continued to be cut off, as bills arrived claiming money we no longer owed. In fact they had told us that we would probably end up being in credit! Three or four times we were cut off; each time I would phone, they would say, "Oh, it looks like the last person didn't sort it out properly, it won't happen again."

I was supposed to be dealing with the initial Customer Services lady I had spoken to who had figured out the mistake. She never called me back, despite lots of promises from everyone that they would email her. This was because she was supposedly the one who would get the email from the Billing Dept about the recalc.

Eventually I got hold of a manager. There was lots of apologising, hand-wringing about how the Customer Services had been very bad not replying, etc, etc. The manager, Marie, gave me her email & guarenteed that she would deal with any queries & the recalculated bill would be with us in 14 days - this was December 4th. No bill has appeared & I cannot now get hold of Marie - she's never there!

We are no longer being cut off, but we now haven't had a bill or made a payment since September/October.

Obviously, we are sick of it & want to break contract. Our buyout fee is over £1000 for the remainder of the contract. We have no idea if we owe or are in credit. Stupidly, I have no written record I don't care about my number, but my husband (the lead phone) needs to port his, as it's central to the business. Orange said thatt hey will not give us PAC codes until we agree to the buyout fee - is that legal?

I really have no idea what to do. Go to the Ombudsman? Demand PACs with no agreement to buyout? Please, please, help me! I would be incredibly grateful for any advice. We can't afford for the business to be gutted by these awful bills!

I'm sorry that turned out so long!

grumbler

SophieL wrote: »

...Orange said thatt hey will not give us PAC codes until we agree to the buyout fee - is that legal?

No, it is not.
Can my mobile provider refuse to give me a PAC?

However, your husband has to be prepared to have his credit history trashed if he doesn't pay what he owes. Then debt collectors will start chasing him.


If your 'broker' broke his promises and you can prove this, sue him via the online small claims court. It is his responsibility to sort everything out with Orange.

SophieL_2

grumbler wrote: »

No, it is not.

However, your husband has to be prepared to have his credit history trashed if he doesn't pay what he owes. Then debt collectors will start chasing him.


If your 'broker' broke his promises and you can prove this, sue him via the online small claims court. It is his responsibility to sort everything out with Orange.

Hi Grumbler,

Thanks. I thought that was the case with PAC codes, but they always end making me doubt myself when I try to be hardline with them!

Husband said yesterday he's prepared to shut down the company & open it in a new name just to screw with Orange - not exactly a feasible plan, but an enjoyable thought! It seems to be impossible to just get a proper balance out of them so we can judge the buyout fee accordingly.

I'll look into the broker part. Thanks again.

bigal831

Sophie

i'm not a lawyer, but to me, it appears that Orange have a pattern of not refunding money following mistakes of this kind. Assuming that the broker was acting for Orange, Orange are responsible for what he did. If they lose money from his actions, that's their issue and should not be yours.

A potential query is whether this is a civil, as opposed to criminal matter. The police, or Hertfordshire Trading Standards would only be interested in a criminal matter. Simply taking money by mistake would not be criminal, as anyone can make a mistake and you /the Police would need to show criminal intent, eg to have told a lie for the purpose of obtaining a benefit that they wouln't otherwise obtain. If Orange had refunded the overcharges, their behaviour would demonstrate that they had no criminal intent.

In cases where Orange is systematically refusing to correct their agent's mistake, i believe their behaviour is part of a co-ordinated corporate policy. As such their refusal to make refunds is potentially criminal?

You're a victim here; don't feel bad or awkward; Orange are relying on that. Good luck.

grumbler

The police don't care unless you have proofs that the broker deliberately told the lie rather than made an error.

Buzby

Your complaint appears to be with your agent - Orange will have confirmed your deal in writing, to you. Was this incorrect? It is not unknown for you to be up sold to an inappropriate tariff whilst you trust what your intermediary told you - but this does not necessarily make Orange the guilty party. If your agent is uncontactable, it may be he arranged the inappropriate tariff in order to bag a considerable commission.

So you need to find out what you agreed to, and what you were eventually billed.