Solar ... In the news

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

On a more general point, all PV enthusiasts seem to be pinning their hopes on a future mass storage breakthrough, as if only PV generation will use that storage.


It doesn't take much imagination to appreciate that this storage will be far better used with reliable, cheaper and predictable generation.

Two points:

Firstly, care to name this imagined 'reliable, cheaper and predictable generation'?

Secondly, why on earth would you say something so daft as this:

"as if only PV generation will use that storage."

Who has ever said that? Why would you make up such a silly claim?

Large scale storage would serve all generation. It would get some PV in the BST months, especially on sunny quiet weekends, but would probably be used far more for wind generation, especially in the GMT months. It would also serve tidal generation.

It may eliminate the need to pay constraint payments used to keep fast ramping generation on stand-by (wind and gas), but presumably if that potential need couldn't be wholly eliminated then it could also be used to absorb excess generation by running those plants, rather than paying them to 'be ready'.

I'd expect it to be very useful to the Grid for storing away excess gas generation at times when the Grid just isn't quite certain about scaling down gas generation. It could also be used to mop up excess nuclear/coal generation at night as they are less flexible.

Wowza, somebody really hasn't thought any of this through!

Mart.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

On a more general point, all PV enthusiasts seem to be pinning their hopes on a future mass storage breakthrough, as if only PV generation will use that storage.

It doesn't take much imagination to appreciate that this storage will be far better used with reliable, cheaper and predictable generation.

Hi

I think that although the issue is understood, the point is missed. Energy storage obviously exists on a number of levels, from the humble AA rechargeable battery (which we charge during the day), through DHW and all the way up to the largest form of rechargeable battery, pumped storage. Obviously there are opportunities to slot other storage technologies into the mix, some product specific, some site specific, some neighbourhood and, of course, grid-scale strategic storage ..

Pumped storage is a shared resource ... it doesn't care what the energy source is - it just uses it to 'charge' the reservoir when it's 'told' to and then return power to the grid when necessary. Let's just take a quick look at the pumped storage usage profile ... currently it's being 'charged' for ~8Hrs overnight (~23:00 to ~07:00) and generates for ~16Hrs during the day - most of the generation is at a steady/consistent level, but the system is ramped up by ~200% (to about 1.5GW) to assist as a 'fast reaction' source to smooth grid performance during morning and evening peaks (mainly 16:00-18:00). Okay, so we can see that excess night-time generation is being 'soaked-up' and released during the day ... so, what's to say that a good proportion of the power used to pump water uphill at night at Dinorwig (built specifically as a battery to balance nuclear generation to demand) doesn't already come from Welsh offshore wind-farms equally as much as the Wylfa nuclear plant on Anglesey ... something must be supplying the 8Hr pumping electricity demand - it certainly isn't Trawsfynydd or the 50% of Wylfa which has already been decommissioned, with the rest closing next year ... and when the wind doesn't blow, you just turn on some plant which isn't capital intensive to the job - likely shale gas somewhere at the other end of the cable (Cheshire/Lancashire) .... isn't this a prime example of the flexibility of storage solutions which aren't tied to the originating energy source ?? ...

Now, let's look at a predictable generating source ... tidal. Yes, you can schedule generation accurately decades in advance ... but if there's no storage consideration there's the issue of the tide not being in sync with demand ... so massive tidal lagoons or large scale pumped storage come into play ....

Domestic storage suits me for one reason, that being some shiny glass on the roof which doesn't generate overnight - Grid-scale storage suits the grid for other reasons, most of which can & do benefit us all in one way or another ...

HTH
Z

Cardew

Exactly my point!

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

Exactly my point!

... ish, but the following doesn't really fit ..... "It doesn't take much imagination to appreciate that this storage will be far better used with reliable, cheaper and predictable generation." ...

Taking the example of Dinorwig - it was actually designed and commissioned to add a degree of variability to the output of the nearby 'predictable' nuclear stations, however, it's just as suited to removing the variability which is inherent in most forms of renewables generation. Prioritising 'reliable' and 'predictable' generation as the primary pumping energy source over renewables make little sense, why not just commission more of that technology to directly feed demand ... after all large scale pumped storage is horrendously expensive and contributes an overall energy deficit to the system (efficiency losses) ... without nuclear, the main thing that it can do well is capture available 'unpredictable' generation excess and release it to demand ... you don't need anything of the scale of the available pumped storage (including Dinorwig) to smooth grid fluctuations whilst standby generation is brought on-line ... this can be easily established by looking at the generation profile - most of the daytime energy is produced at around 500MW, which suggests that using carbon based fuels to replenish the reservoirs at somewhere around 75% efficiency would be an unnecessary waste of carbon-fuel resource ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

Some very good news for large-scale PV (with a few caveats).

UK solar to be cheaper than gas by 2018

Firstly if PV becomes cheaper than gas, then who could possibly complain. Though, admittedly the suggestion in the article is that gas costs will rise quite a bit in the next 4/5 years.

Secondly, interesting to see the significant difference in the suggested costs of PV by DECC and the STA by 2018/19 (which I mentioned earlier today on the 'Break Even' thread).

Lastly, I said several years ago, that I didn't think solar levels in the UK would ever allow large-scale supply side PV to go subsidy free with the underlying leccy market price of £45 to £50 [Edit: per MWh.] However, if DECC's predictions are correct (over the wholesale leccy price) then we could see subsidy free supply side PV by the late 2020's using either the STA's or DECC's PV cost estimations. I think that is brilliant news, though of course folks won't want to see prices rise, but that is probably inevitable, with or without renewables.

Mart.

Martyn1981

US on target for 10% solar by 2030 - report

The US is well within reach of a goal of sourcing 10% of its electricity needs from solar within 15 years, according to a coalition of environmental groups in the US.

A study by Environment America Research & Policy Center said that even if solar in the US grew at only a third the rate at which it has in the past three years, it would reach 10% of the national energy mix by 2030.

Mart.

Martyn1981

There have been a consideable number of schemes in the news over the last 3 or 4 years where social or private landlords have installed PV systems, but I think this is the largest I've heard of.

New solar joint venture aims to help 75,000 households out of fuel poverty

AMP Solar UK was established to acquire, build and manage a portfolio of over 300MW of ground-mount, commercial and residential solar energy installations. The Company’s special focus will be on social housing rooftop developments, with the goal of bringing at least 75,000 tenants out of fuel poverty. In addition, AMP Solar UK has a significant portfolio of planned ground-mount projects.

Mart.

rogerblack

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141125/ncomms6517/full/ncomms6517.html
Repurposing Blu-ray movie discs as quasi-random nanoimprinting templates for photon management


This is an interesting technique, using nanostructuring of the surface of the solar cell before manufacture.
Unfortunately, the actual article is paywalled - but they claim a very, very significant advance - in that they are getting 40% out, not 20%, nearly doubling the output.

Cardew

Martyn1981 wrote: »

There have been a consideable number of schemes in the news over the last 3 or 4 years where social or private landlords have installed PV systems, but I think this is the largest I've heard of.

New solar joint venture aims to help 75,000 households out of fuel poverty



Mart.

I thought you were against Rent a Roof schemes?

This scheme is nothing more than a firm offering a form of RaR system or selling their systems to developers/housing associations/home owners.

Developers, commercial landlords, housing associations and other potential end-users can purchase solar systems outright from AMP Solar UK, thereby producing an income from generated power.

Alternatively, end-users can opt for a no-cost managed installation and benefit from a Power Purchase Agreement, through which they will receive heavily discounted energy, with costs fixed over a 20-year term.

Of course all of the FIT subsidies(as usual) are paid for by other electricity consumers in increased bills.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

... This scheme is nothing more than a firm offering a form of RaR system or selling their systems to developers/housing associations/home owners.

Developers, commercial landlords, housing associations and other potential end-users can purchase solar systems outright from AMP Solar UK, thereby producing an income from generated power.

Alternatively, end-users can opt for a no-cost managed installation and benefit from a Power Purchase Agreement, through which they will receive heavily discounted energy, with costs fixed over a 20-year term.

...

... I suppose that a lot depends on the definition of the "Power Purchase Agreement" ... it could be RaR, but it could just as easily be an agreement to share the FiT with the householder ...

HTH
Z