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Solar ... In the news
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HiNot at night it wont be.
... but in reality, considering that there is nothing being produced, how do you calculate the cost per kWh ? ... you can't, so it's a moot point ...
It's possible that some could argue that the capital cost could be amortised by the hour, but this simply makes the return during daylight hours better, so whatever way you look at it there's simply a cost/kWh of production - if that cost is less than other forms of generation then pv is certainly & logically cheaper.
Others may debate that redundant capacity is required for when renewables aren't generating, whilst missing a vital point in that the standby plant required generates at relatively low capital, maintenance and manning costs, but a high running cost when consuming fuel, whilst renewables are almost the reverse ... this leaves a little quandary - what will be worse, unproductive capacity whilst renewables are generating, or redundant capacity when they're not ??
So, for anyone who is anti-renewables because generation isn't schedulable, the solution is obvious - invest in storage and it effectively becomes a non-issue. What form of storage is best is open to debate, but pumped storage is probably the most mature current technology, with tidal being both schedulable and can provide storage solutions ... all it takes is the political will to accept that someone will be unhappy ... NIMBYs, campaigners for 'fishies', 'birdies' and pretty open valleys to photograph and have picnics in (even if they've never done either !) - and of course, the legacy, carbon based, generators and their considerable lobbying clout ...
Ah well, it's night and at least some of the energy collected here has been stored ... warmer water, warmer room and a steaming-hot casserole, so it looks like offsetting some of our reliance on night-time energy consumption will be reduced again .... who'd have thought it, solar making a contribution which has an effect on consumption when it's dark !! ...
HTH
Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
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Not at night it wont be.
I'm curious what this obsession is that some people have in pointing out that solar (SOLAR) doesn't generate at night?
My washing machine doesn't mow the lawn, but that doesn't cause me any concern whatsoever!
If we think of renewables like transport solutions, motorbikes can't carry five people in weather proof safety, and cars can't transport one person cheaply and quickly through congested rush hour traffic. So presumably both will quickly prove to be failures as transport options. Now, let's consider vans, buses, pick-ups, trucks etc etc.
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Or the obsession of over analysing a simple humorous comment, even when it has been duly indicated with a green smiley.Martyn1981 wrote: »I'm curious what this obsession is that some people have in pointing out that solar (SOLAR) doesn't generate at night?
My washing machine doesn't mow the lawn, but that doesn't cause me any concern whatsoever!
If we think of renewables like transport solutions, motorbikes can't carry five people in weather proof safety, and cars can't transport one person cheaply and quickly through congested rush hour traffic. So presumably both will quickly prove to be failures as transport options. Now, let's consider vans, buses, pick-ups, trucks etc etc.
Mart.
Seriously guys, it was not to be taken as an attack against solar.0 -
Or the obsession of over analysing a simple humorous comment, even when it has been duly indicated with a green smiley.
Seriously guys, it was not to be taken as an attack against solar.
Fair enough Istar, no offence meant. But I do genuinely find it odd just how many times on MSE people point out that solar doesn't work at night.
It always (to me) smacks of desperation, trying to find some way to knock it, as it steadily surpasses all expectations ....... just not at night perhaps!:D
[Edit: Not just trying to defend PV, once we go down the route of pointing out what each 'thing' can't do, we would quickly be left with nothing. And as the new kids on the block, renewables seem to suffer the most criticism. M.]
Mart.Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Hey, it's a simple misunderstanding, something forums are full of! I didn't take any offence. :rotfl:Martyn1981 wrote: »Fair enough Istar, no offence meant. But I do genuinely find it odd just how many times on MSE people point out that solar doesn't work at night.
It always (to me) smacks of desperation, trying to find some way to knock it, as it steadily surpasses all expectations ....... just not at night perhaps!:D
[Edit: Not just trying to defend PV, once we go down the route of pointing out what each 'thing' can't do, we would quickly be left with nothing. And as the new kids on the block, renewables seem to suffer the most criticism. M.]
Mart.
If anything my post was poking fun at the 'solar doesn't work at night' posts. I thought I could get away with it as you all would recognise my username as a user of PV and happy with its performance. Seems I slipped under the radar!
Solar certainly has a place in our energy mix, just need to get the storage sorted!0 -
I was thinking pumped storage, but its the space it takes up!What form of storage is best is open to debate, but pumped storage is probably the most mature current technology, with tidal being both schedulable and can provide storage solutions
I know what you mean. I live in the south west and would love to see the Severn Barrage project go ahead, but I don't think it ever will.... all it takes is the political will to accept that someone will be unhappy ... NIMBYs, campaigners for 'fishies', 'birdies' and pretty open valleys to photograph and have picnics in (even if they've never done either !) - and of course, the legacy, carbon based, generators and their considerable lobbying clout ...
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HiI was thinking pumped storage, but its the space it takes up!
I know what you mean. I live in the south west and would love to see the Severn Barrage project go ahead, but I don't think it ever will.
There was a sub-discussion a few years back involving large scale pumped storage ... here's an idea of what space/volume would be involved (this post and a few around it) ...Hi
Not talking about Dinorwig, but something similar is possible on a larger scale, both in generating capacity and stored water volume, which could be used for generation over a period of days ..... a system comprising somewhere around 100,000 megalitres of high/low capacity with around 150m between the two levels would do for a start with a massive increase in volume of flow compensating for the loss of elevation differential available at Dinorwig, but to place that volume in context, we'd be talking about a pumped system which would be equal in scale to the Elan valley reservoirs .... we're talking massive numbers for the Severn barrage, massive numbers for windpower, massive numbers for nuclear, massive numbers for gas-fired plant, so if we need to create a hydroelectric 'battery' (or series of batteries) to smooth generation to demand, then we'll need to spend massive numbers on that too, it might just mean that less generating capacity duplication will be necessary elsewhere ....
HTH
Z
It's not easy, but a little political will and accepting that the 'usual suspects' will be upset for a while is all that's required ... the problem is that most of our current politicians have absolutely no backbone and even less comprehension of what is and isn't really important, let alone how to prioritise ... they'd rather debate the 19th century slave trade or the current trends in women's fashion than something important ... give them a set of simple logical puzzles (such as the good old 11+ exam) and you'd find that most would struggle to scrape a pass, so no wonder nothing ever gets done ! ..
HTH
Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »I'm curious what this obsession is that some people have in pointing out that solar (SOLAR) doesn't generate at night?
Perhaps we all suffer from OCD!0 -
On a more general point, all PV enthusiasts seem to be pinning their hopes on a future mass storage breakthrough, as if only PV generation will use that storage.
It doesn't take much imagination to appreciate that this storage will be far better used with reliable, cheaper and predictable generation.0 -
On a more general point, all PV enthusiasts seem to be pinning their hopes on a future mass storage breakthrough, as if only PV generation will use that storage.
It doesn't take much imagination to appreciate that this storage will be far better used with reliable, cheaper and predictable generation.
Care to provide a source for this, or is it simply your personal opinion? Secretary of state for energy and climate change Ed Davey says solar will be the cheapest source of energy.
http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/ed_davey_solar_will_become_cheapest_form_of_energySolar install June 2022, Bath
4.8 kW array, Growatt SPH5000 inverter, 1x Seplos Mason 280L V3 battery 15.2 kWh.
SSW roof. ~22° pitch, BISF house. 12 x 400W Hyundai panels0
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