Is Britain's domestic gas & electricity really the lowest in Europe?

cepheus

Liebrary: Are Britain's energy companies' charges for domestic gas & electricity really the lowest in Europe?

What the apologists are rather shy about is the fact that the price difference is due to UK taxes on retail energy being about the lowest in the EU. If you strip out the government taxes - money which doesn't go into the pockets of the energy companies - UK energy prices are about the same as the rest of the EU....While other countries who are dependent on imports can plead that global wholesale price force them to put their retail prices up, the British energy companies have no such excuse.


http://www.blog.rippedoffbritons.com/2012/01/liebrary-are-britains-energy-companies.html

Cardew

What a strange website

http://www.blog.rippedoffbritons.com/2012/01/liebrary-are-britains-energy-companies.html

The graphs appear to show that London prices for electricity are 15 Euros per kWh and gas prices are 5 euros per kWh.

It then goes on to say:

One of the true
things energy companies say, (and never forget, the most effective rip-offs are done without lying) is that the UK has low domestic gas and electricity prices compared with most of the European Union.

As you say we pay low taxes on energy which accounts for our low prices(compared to Europe)

However this statement of yours is plain wrong:

While other countries who are dependent on imports can plead that global wholesale price force them to put their retail prices up, the British energy companies have no such excuse.

European law forbids the producing energy companies from selling below market price to their distribution firms. For instance Centrica(who own British Gas) cannot sell energy to British gas so they can undercut rivals. Ditto EDF etc.

In any case why would Centrica/EDF etc who sell on the global market, want to sell their energy to UK firms at a lower price than they could get from France, Italy etc.

Stupid and ill informed article IMO.

sheffield_lad

Cheap fuel era is over. instead of being moaning brits its better we accept we are not being ripped off and get used to it

cepheus

Cardew wrote: »

However this statement of yours is plain wrong:


European law forbids the producing energy companies from selling below market price to their distribution firms. For instance Centrica(who own British Gas) cannot sell energy to British gas so they can undercut rivals. Ditto EDF etc.

In any case why would Centrica/EDF etc who sell on the global market, want to sell their energy to UK firms at a lower price than they could get from France, Italy etc.

Stupid and ill informed article IMO.

So are you saying there is no price advantage to possessing directly connected gasfields from the North Sea, as opposed to importing CNG from the Middle east in Ships for example, or relying on nice Mr Putin's rates?

It's always baffled me how gas can be treated as a commodity like grain or copper since surely it's price is heavily dependent on the infrastructure available to supply it to the potential customers. Presumably they can't switch a valve to divert it from the UK to Greece

yangptangkipperbang

Why do people always find and believe these crackpot websites ?

It takes a few seconds to get some reasonably accurate figures for the EU:

http://www.energy.eu/

(Actually I sincerely believe the EU is a crackpot organisation - but that is a different story :rotfl::rotfl:)

Cardew

cepheus wrote: »

Presumably they can't switch a valve to divert it from the UK to Greece

They can load it on tankers!

john1

Don't worry shortly "they" are running extension cables to Iceland, Norway and Ireland and we shall have abundant low cost :rotfl::rotfl: electricity



see http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/11/iceland-volcano-green-power

cepheus

Cardew wrote: »

They can load it on tankers!

Haven't I just said this? I don't see why you think transporting gas is so easy there is a global competitive market, equivalent to that of a high density product

Until 2003, LNG prices have closely followed oil prices. Since then, LNG prices in Europe and Japan have been lower than oil prices, although the link between LNG and oil is still strong. In contrast, prices in the US and the UK have recently skyrocketed, then fallen as a result of changes in supply and storage.

In late 1990s and in early 2000s, the market shifted for buyers, but since 2003 and 2004, it has been a strong seller's market, with net-back as the best estimation for prices.

Japan, South Korea, Spain, France, Italy and Taiwan import large volumes of LNG due to their shortage of energy. In 2005, Japan imported 58.6 million tons of LNG, representing some 30% of the LNG trade around the world that year. Also in 2005, South Korea imported 22.1 million tons and in 2004 Taiwan imported 6.8 million tons. These three major buyers purchase approximately two-thirds of the world's LNG demand. In addition, Spain imported some 8.2 mmtpa in 2006, making it the third largest importer. France also imported similar quantities as Spain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas#Trade

HappyMJ

cepheus wrote: »

Haven't I just said this? I don't see why you think transporting gas is so easy there is a global competitive market, equivalent to that of a high density product

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas#Trade

As each tanker contains enough gas to supply 108,000 average households for an entire year then I'd say it's quite easy to transport it....especially for our winter peak load when our gas fields can't supply enough of it.

Cardew

cepheus wrote: »

Haven't I just said this? I don't see why you think transporting gas is so easy there is a global competitive market, equivalent to that of a high density product

As I understand it you, or rather that 'article', contend that UK distribution companies(BG, Npower etc) get their energy 'on the cheap' and do not pay global prices simply because because GB is close to the North Sea. Thus the UK based companies make huge profits.

The profits of all these companies are a matter of public record, as are the 'windfall taxes' paid by the North sea oil companies.

It is also a matter of record that UK energy prices are generally lower than most in Europe.

It seems in your desire to prove it is 'rip off Britain' you now pin your case on transport costs.

Can you not do better to prove your case than by quoting some badly written blog?

antrobus

Cardew wrote: »

What a strange website....

It's the 'official blog of the Guardian cartoon strip'. Whatever that means. However, it's 'official' nature doesn't prevent it from being chock full of misinformation. Complete and utter rubbish from beginning to end.