Yeh Nice One Martin .......... Not

ollyk

UNDERGROUND wrote:

I think not.

Would you like to expand on that? Anybody?

krisskross

icefall wrote:

W
The amount of charges claimed back is a drop in the ocean to the banks, but some people don't really want to hear that do they?

So it maybe a drop in the ocean to the banks, but do you honestly think they will stand the loss of even a drop of their profits?

I would advise anyone who has a precarious relationship with their bank and their money to be very careful in the future. The banks have access to the finest legal and financial brains in the country. A charge system WILL be set up that cannot be challenged, and I would expect it to cost at least as much as it does now in total for people who do not keep within the banks conditions.

joyful_star

krisskross wrote:

So it maybe a drop in the ocean to the banks, but do you honestly think they will stand the loss of even a drop of their profits?

I would advise anyone who has a precarious relationship with their bank and their money to be very careful in the future. The banks have access to the finest legal and financial brains in the country. A charge system WILL be set up that cannot be challenged, and I would expect it to cost at least as much as it does now in total for people who do not keep within the banks conditions.

I don't agree with this at all. I do believe that yes people should be careful when dealing with banks, however, since I claimed back my charges, my bank HSBC has sent me a new set of banking terms and conditions (which for the first time in my life, I read through thoroughly) which are a lot more favourable. The bank charges have also reduced. The same thing applies to my credit cards.

The fact that it has now become public knowledge (thanks to MSE Martin), that banks have been acting unlawfully, I think, has resulted in us customers getting more favourable terms. The best thing to do is avoid getting charged in the first place, however there is a big difference when one is levied with a £12.00 bank charge as opposed to a £35.00 one. For someone in already in financial difficulty, a couple of £35.00 bank charges feel like a kick in the teeth.

nickmack

krisskross wrote:

The banks have access to the finest legal and financial brains in the country.

Which makes the fact they haven't successfully defended any penalty charges claim in England in the last year very bizarre indeed.

scabbers

trademark wrote:

So those of us who adhere to our banks terms and conditions and build a good working relationship with our banks over a prolonged period will now have to carry those who dont.

And you all know the truth ...yes the banks make billions, but they have targets and they will keep them .... how ? by reducing or delaying interest, providing less attractive incentives ....... cutting staffing levels, or their availbility on the customer front line.

Those who spend and basically steal the banks money without permission ... and yes it is theft, will not get their money back ...and who will pay for it.

you guessed it ... as always ...those of us with the money, hard earned money i might add.

I agree that those who are few pounds overdrawn at the end of the month should not be rewarded with a £35 letter, and in most cases the bank ignore a few pounds so no problem, but thousands of pounds in charges are caused by those who ignore the banks, take from them and then disregard their advice.

martin you are no better than carol vorderman, i wonder how big your house and bank balance are, brilliant website but you've lost it this time.

Thanks for making me laugh... at first then I got annoyed! In most cases the bank does NOT ignore a few pounds - not even a few PENCE! Yes, I agreed to my banks T&C's but only because I HAD to. We have no choice do we? And I never meant to go overdrawn (£3). But for lots of us it does happen and we get charged A LOT of money whether we've gone 3 pence or £3000 overdrawn. For lots of us these UNLAWFUL charges have spiralled, one causing another and so on until it's the charges NOT our overspending that is causing us our problems. Not true of everyone but for lots it's as simple as that!

ollyk

scabbers wrote:

Thanks for making me laugh... at first then I got annoyed! In most cases the bank does NOT ignore a few pounds - not even a few PENCE! Yes, I agreed to my banks T&C's but only because I HAD to. We have no choice do we? And I never meant to go overdrawn (£3). But for lots of us it does happen and we get charged A LOT of money whether we've gone 3 pence or £3000 overdrawn. For lots of us these UNLAWFUL charges have spiralled, one causing another and so on until it's the charges NOT our overspending that is causing us our problems. Not true of everyone but for lots it's as simple as that!

Never quite that simple is it though? Basically you are laying the blame squarely with the bank.
With some of the attitudes on this thread I am beginning to think this country needs TOUGHER penelties for over spending and maybe we should go down the french system and make it effectively illegal to spend money you haven't got, but I guess you would all be campaining for the £30 charges back then!

And I repeat my original question. Why can the bank not later claim it's £12 x (number of charges previously claimed) back - am I missing something obvious here? Maybe it has already been ruled out and I missed it?
Anyway, forget they haven't done it yet maybe like I have said they are waiting, hell if they could potentially win this one they might as well wait for more people to claim, wait while the 'winners' spend all their money servicing debts / going on holidays etc, and when the banks come along and finally calim this money and want it now, once again they will push the people who have not yet learn't further into debt?

nickmack

ollyk wrote:

Why can the bank not later claim it's £12 x (number of charges previously claimed) back - am I missing something obvious here? Maybe it has already been ruled out and I missed it?

Because they would need to prove their costs for each penalty charge were actually £12.

IvanOpinion

ollyk wrote:

And I repeat my original question. Why can the bank not later claim it's £12 x (number of charges previously claimed) back - am I missing something obvious here? Maybe it has already been ruled out and I missed it?

I am actually surprised that they refund the entire £35 and not only (e.g.) £25 ... it is an interesting thought though and, given the fact customers are allowed to reclaim their charges then I would see no reason why banks should not have the ability to reclaim whatever amount is finally settled upon, plus of course all the interest ... sauce for goose is sauce for the gander. I don't see it happening though (and have not seen any plans for such) ... it would definitely be poetic justice though.

Unfortunately the lesson being taught here is that recklessness and incompetence get rewarded instead of punished ... there is something peculiarly British about that.

Ivan

MSE_Martin

The reason the banks don't only offer £25 of £35 is simple. This would then be an admittence that £10 were the right fee (or whatever the difference is, is the right fee) therefore admitting that £35 is wrong. They can't argue that as it defeats their main claim - so they're stymied.

I've just finished writing a piece calling for charges to be fixed at £5 and every penny difference thats been overcharged to be automatically paid back.

It seems to me a fiver is acceptible - the academics say its a maximum £4.50. So lets take £5 as a fair fee and a round number and go with this one as a compromise figure. I hear rumours the banks are asking the OFT for £15 - £18 as a compromise which is totally unacceptible in my view

Martin

ollyk

IvanOpinion wrote:

Unfortunately the lesson being taught here is that recklessness and incompetence get rewarded instead of punished ... there is something peculiarly British about that.

Ivan

Thanks Ivan, I hadn't realised a 'fair' amount hadn't yet been finalised. I guess this could explain why the banks haven't challenged any cases yet.
I guess you are right about us Brits, but is this not a relatively new phenomina? whether it is or not I feel guilty toward my family because I have made both my daughter and wife 'suffer' just to keep our head (and account) above the water while we see other people getting into 'easy' debt without worrying about the consequencies, and then expecting their errors to be rectified by others. What have we got to show for this?
I also don't feel any pride when I say I am debt free these days as people automatically assume I am 'well off', 'snobbish', 'big headed', 'you don't know what it's like' or 'I am lucky' the list just goes on and on, there always appears to be a 'valid' excuse. It seems the debt stigma is now well and truly on the other foot