Yeh Nice One Martin .......... Not

deedee2665

Hello all, I'm not Deedee, I'm her hubby (didn't see the point in registering two user accounts from the same place lol). I've decided to post here because I've followed the thread and would like to add my own thoughts.

Lets get a few things in perspective here. This site is aimed at getting people out of financial difficulties. I think everyone is agreed that getting out of debt is a good thing, yes? So if you were struggling, and then found out that the council had overcharged you on council tax for years you'd want your money back, yes? So why all the animosity towards those who have reclaimed charges from the banks, or are in the process? The facts are simple, the banks have made illegal charges for years and gotten away with it. Now customers are demanding their money back. Is that a bad thing? I think not.

To put it another way, imagine the following scenario -You want to withdraw some cash from the cash machine, lets say £30 for the sake of arguement. So you go to the machine, put the card in and press the "Withdraw Cash" option. You ask for your £30 and the machine says "sorry there are insufficient funds" blah blah blah. It turns out that you only had £29.99 available. Ok so you can't take the cash out. Then you find out the bank has charged you £35 just for asking to withdraw more than the available amount, and that has put you in the red. Then you get another charge for being overdrawn. You'd be well and truly annoyed wouldn't you? "Ah but that's different" I can hear some of you say. How is it different? A request has been made to take money from your account and has been denied, just as would be the case with a returned direct debit for example. You don't get charged for a cash machine telling you that you don't have enough in the account, so why should the banks be allowed to profit from simply sending you a letter telling you the same thing?

We are not so naive that we think it costs the banks nothing to send a letter to us, but it doesn't cost anything like the amount they charge. The FSO has stated that banks CANNOT make a profit on this, so any charge made for it MUST reflect the true cost to the bank. How much does it cost to send a letter? £35.00 a time is not just making a profit, its downright extortion. As I said, nobody on here expects the banks to work at a loss, just not make a profit from someones misery. When you put money into an account, that money is used by the banks in investments, so they are making their money from you that way. As such, the banks will continue to offer free banking because the amount they make per year from bank charges is such a small pecentage of their overall profit, that they can afford to do so.

I hope no-one is offended at this post as that isn't my intention. I just think that some of you who are complaining at us for reclaiming our money should try and imagine what it feels like to be in this situation. It isn't nice and most of us are just trying to get out of debt. Martin and the gang are doing an excellent job here, and long may they continue to do so.

Ok, rant over,

Deedee's other half.

chrissyfp1

brasso wrote:

I agree that the charges are disproportionate, but nevertheless there has to be some sanction for taking someone else's money. I don't know if the law has changed but at one time it was a criminal offence in France to go overdrawn as it is regarded as being tantamount to theft. Yet some people on this thread seem shocked that they shouldn't be allowed to just take money from the bank without warning or prior negotiation.

The frustration felt by those of us who play by the rules (often to our disadvantage) is that we are now likely to be charged to subsidise the failings of those who flout the rules. Can you not understand how frustrating that is?

I should say that I've been charged by First Direct several times over the past 10 years, usually if a direct debit has been paid before I've remembered to transfer the money in from another account. Every single time this has happened, I've called them up, explained what has happened, apologised, and asked for the charge to be refunded. Each and every time, they have done so.

I can't understand why others don't do this if they feel genuinely aggrieved.

As I say, I think the £30+ charges are way too big and I hope the amount is dropped. Around £10 would seem fair. I don't begrudge people claiming back the charges if they feel that the bank has been unreasonable but honestly, it makes my blood boil to read someone saying that they are planning to reclaim £4000 in charges. If you've paid £4000 in charges you are financially imcompetent. Surely after the first, say, £100 has been paid you should be thinking "Hmm, hold on, perhaps I haven't quite got the hang of this bank account thingie. Maybe I need to change the way I manage my finances". Nope, you just carry on blithely paying out hundreds of pounds a year, all the while cursing the bank.

I feel genuinely sorry for people in financial difficulties that aren't of their own making, and I wish these people well. But anyone who's in debt because they have a house full of electronic gadgetry, or a flashy car, then sorry but I think you deserve all the sanctions the banks try to hit you with. Take control of your own life rather than waiting for someone else to do it for you.

It seems that some banks are not as sympathetic to mistakes as First Direct are. Tinker, for example, stated they have tried to call the bank to explain and apologise for whatever has gone wrong but have found that they haven't been given any leverage.
Snowball effects that the charges cause for some people could be the cause of £4k worth of charges over 6 years. It can and does snowball quite quickly if you don't have the means in place to rectify the situation quickly.
I don't think that anyone has any sympathy for people who have caused their own debt by wanting their luxuries.
I ask you the same question that i asked someone else. If we all want to use the facilities at our banks do you believe that some get it for free if it means that someone else pays it for you? Do you not think a fairer system would be for everyone to pay something in proportion to the services they use. The people in credit already recieve something for their money being there, the people in debit pay to be able to borrow money from the bank. For the things that we all share, instead of the people in debit paying for it all surely we should all pay our bit towards it?

viktory

phil4321 wrote:

I hope all those who oppose people claiming back their charges promptly lose their jobs, can't pay their mortgage, and have their house repossessed by the bank.

What a delightful person you are, Phil.

Baggiebird1nil, you ought to be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. It is clear your extremely offensive post has been deleted - and quite rightly so. You are obviously totally unable to have a reasoned, logical argument without restorting to foul, disgusting insults as you do not have the necessary intelligence.

I personally agree that the bank charges are too high. However, I also agree that I am deeply concerned that those that are claming their charges might not have learned how to avoid these charges.

For the record, I had two charges recently, both for bounced DD's. Totally my fault, I hadn't left enough in the account to cover them. I got charged, paid the charges and learned my lesson. I have stayed in the black ever since.

When a DD is set up, you are given a choice on the date it is taken. I do not think it is too much to ask that people are aware when and how much, is being taken to ensure that funds are available. If a person is finding this difficult, ie for gas and electric, then a pre payment meter can be installed.

I think that those whose accounts are constantly incurring charges should have their accounts closed. They should be given basic bank accounts.

I strongly object to paying for my bank account and I am annoyed that this action might be taken due to those who have wilfully incurred bank charges and then demanded them back.

I just hope that all those that have successfully reclaimed their bank charges have learned a valuable lesson and will not whinge too much when they are paying for their bank accounts.

Oh and BTW, I have never paid a charge on withdrawing money from a cash point.

krisskross

deedee2665 wrote:

Hello all, I'm not Deedee, I'm her hubby (didn't see the point in registering two user accounts from the same place lol). I've decided to post here because I've followed the thread and would like to add my own thoughts.

Lets get a few things in perspective here. This site is aimed at getting people out of financial difficulties. I think everyone is agreed that getting out of debt is a good thing, yes? So if you were struggling, and then found out that the council had overcharged you on council tax for years you'd want your money back, yes? So why all the animosity towards those who have reclaimed charges from the banks, or are in the process? The facts are simple, the banks have made illegal charges for years and gotten away with it. Now customers are demanding their money back. Is that a bad thing? I think not.

Just a couple of small points and I know accusations of being pedantic will follow. The site is actually called MoneySAVINGexpert. It looks as if it will be costing me money not saving me any. The charges the banks have been making have been deemed to be unlawful not illegal. There is a difference.

I hope you are successful in your claim, I hope it makes a huge difference to your financial standing

YorkshireBoy

Just to be even more pedantic ...

krisskross wrote:

The charges the banks have been making [strike]have been deemed[/strike] are thought by some to be unlawful not illegal. There is a difference.

duncans-mum_2

I have debt - our/my fault, no one elses.
I initially took on a debt for a car, nothing fancy, just a car.At that time we were in a position to pay for it comforatably. (In hindsight was a v. bad deal but was a naive 22yr old without the benefit of a site like this_ - my fault.

A yr or two later while still paying extortionately high finance, my OH lost his job completely out of the blue. - not our/my fault.

So with one wage lost and various DD comittments, we got quite a few bank charges for failed DD, which then made us short the next month and got more charges etc. Even when both wages coming back in it took quite a while to play catch up and get back to normality.

I paid them, because I had to. I never dreamed at the time to ask a bank to take pity on me.

It has now been three years since I had a bank charge so yes I learned my lesson, but only because there luckily was no unforseen circumstance to tip me over again.

I then hear the charges are unlawful and I can claim them back. So why shouldn't I? Yes I have debt which is my fault but I am paying back every penny, on time, and more (with interest) So why because I have debt that I am controlling should I be looked down upon by the tone given by some posters because they oppose the reclaiming. (only because they haven'y got any.)
Because of asking for this money back (and getting it thank you very much) it is not my fault if banks begin to charge for having accounts - which I will also have to pay. The anger should be directed at the banks for proposing this, and if they hadn't over penalised in the first place, then this would never have been an issue. Good luck to people who have or are in the process of reclaiming your money.

duncans-mum_2

viktory wrote:

I just hope that all those that have successfully reclaimed their bank charges have learned a valuable lesson and will not whinge too much when they are paying for their bank accounts.

Oh and BTW, I have never paid a charge on withdrawing money from a cash point.

Although I don't relish the fact that I would have to pay a fee, if faced with the choice, I would rather pay that in the safe knowledge if I did get in trouble again (through no willing fault of my own) that a smaller charge would be applied to me instead of monies that can make an already bad situation a million times worse.

chrissyfp1

krisskross wrote:

Just a couple of small points and I know accusations of being pedantic will follow. The site is actually called MoneySAVINGexpert. It looks as if it will be costing me money not saving me any. The charges the banks have been making have been deemed to be unlawful not illegal. There is a difference.

It might cost you some money to use the facilities that you do, the chances are that those who are considered to be a good customers still wont have to pay for the services they use. It is not the site that might end up costing you money, all the site has done is inform people that what they have been paying for over the years has been in fact an unlawful charge. Thats not the fault of the site that the banks have been doing that. It's not the fault of the person who has been unlawfully charged that the bank has been using the unlawful profits that they have been making to enable free banking. Maybe the banks should have been using the profits from the legitimate sources they obtain it from to pay for the free banking.

viktory

I have to add that I have just seen a thread a few pages back where people are going for their second claim. They claimed back the charges, won and then whilst their backs were turned, they run up a load more charges!!!! Now they plan on claiming those back. I'm sorry but that is totally unacceptable, have these people learned nothing?? What did they spend the money on? Was it getting out of debt, or a nice car/holiday/new clothes?

I sincerely hope the banks close their accounts. Might (finally) teach them a lesson.

viktory

duncans-mum wrote:

Although I don't relish the fact that I would have to pay a fee, if faced with the choice, I would rather pay that in the safe knowledge if I did get in trouble again (through no willing fault of my own) that a smaller charge would be applied to me instead of monies that can make an already bad situation a million times worse.

Well I wouldn't. And therein lies the rub. None of us will get a choice. See my above post - there is the reason why. Stupid people who can't manage their money. We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. Those that have run up charges again clearly haven't.

As far as I am concerned, the blame for going overdrawn or bounced DD's lies with the account holder. It is your account so manage it.

I do agree the charges are too high - so lower the charges and close the accounts of those that are clearly incapable of managing their finances.