A Couple of Questions

Wyre

This is niggling at me since I have been reading here so I thought I would ask.

• Grandmother died leaving 1 spouse and 2 children (my Dad and Uncle).

• Apparently there was no will.

• House was entirely in her name bought prior to her marriage and was never transferred in any part to his name. She had shares and insurances.

• Her estate was not wound up when my Father died. Uncle was dealing with this.

• Uncle informed my Father that Step-grandfather had life time interest in house.

• My Father left a will leaving everything to my Mum.

• Step-grandfather died.

• Still Grandmother's estate was not sorted.

• Mum saw a solicitor that told her that as my father died after my Grandmother, my mother should be a beneficiary.

• Mum wrote to Uncle and finally received a small settlement.

• Mum has just told me that the settlement was was 1/6th the value of the house as uncle had taken step-grandfather's will into account. (The rest went to Uncle, Uncle's wife and Uncle's 3 children - my siblings and myself received nothing).

Is this correct? Should the house have not been split equally between the two siblings (and therefore my Mum as Dad was dead).
Should Uncle have produced accounts to show what went where?

Many thanks

getmore4less

Wyre wrote: »

This is niggling at me since I have been reading here so I thought I would ask.

• Grandmother died leaving 1 spouse and 2 children (my Dad and Uncle).

• Apparently there was no will.

then the estate is dealt with under insestate rules
here is one guide
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_death_and_wills_e/who_can_inherit_if_there_is_no_will___the_rules_of_intestacy.htm

• House was entirely in her name bought prior to her marriage and was never transferred in any part to his name. She had shares and insurances.

need to establish the calue of the estate at that time so you can get an idea of what should have been done.

• Her estate was not wound up when my Father died. Uncle was dealing with this.

• Uncle informed my Father that Step-grandfather had life time interest in house.

THis may or may not have been right depending on the value of the esteta and how it shouldhave distributed

• My Father left a will leaving everything to my Mum.

• Step-grandfather died.

• Still Grandmother's estate was not sorted.

• Mum saw a solicitor that told her that as my father died after my Grandmother, my mother should be a beneficiary.

this will depend on the value of the estate at the time of GM death

• Mum wrote to Uncle and finally received a small settlement.

• Mum has just told me that the settlement was was 1/6th the value of the house as uncle had taken step-grandfather's will into account. (The rest went to Uncle, Uncle's wife and Uncle's 3 children - my siblings and myself received nothing).

Is this correct? Should the house have not been split equally between the two siblings (and therefore my Mum as Dad was dead).
Should Uncle have produced accounts to show what went where?

Many thanks

You will need to dig and get the vlaues of various assets at various times.

you can get some information(wills) from the probate office.

the key will be the estate value at the time of GM death and how much of that would have gone to children.

you then need to se GF will to make sure this has been interprited correctly given dad died before him it wil depend what the will says.

ValHaller

Wyre wrote: »

• Mum wrote to Uncle and finally received a small settlement.

If Mum wrote to Uncle and confirmed that she would accept £X 'in full and final settlement' she may have shot herself in the foot even if she should have got more.

madbadrob

All in all the second bullet point is the relevant factor where your grandmother is concerned. As there was no will every part of her estate would pass to the spouse assuming the assets valued less than 250k. What he does with that after his death is up to him. If the estate is worth over 250k then he would get a life interest in 50% of the excess and the other 50% would be split between your father and uncle. Upon the death of the step grandfather the other 50% would them come to your father and uncle. The life interest when held by the step grandfather cannot be spent but can be invested and he can have the interest from that investment.

You dont say whether the step grandfather left a will or not. If he did then all the estate would pass as by the terms of that will. If he left no will then this estate would also come under the intestacy rules (see the link Getmore4less supplied) and assuming he never legally adopted your Uncle and Father then your family have no claim upon that estate.

I am not sure whether Valhallers remark is correct because she is entitled to 50% of any residue over the 250k (assuming the estate was valued at over 250k) and she has the law on her side there.

I would seriously consider obtaining legal advice from a probate solicitor as this could become very complicated and if your uncle as not administered the estate correctly could end up with a claim in court

Rob

Rob

ValHaller

madbadrob wrote: »

I am not sure whether Valhallers remark is correct because she is entitled to 50% of any residue over the 250k (assuming the estate was valued at over 250k) and she has the law on her side there.

ValHaller's remark is essentially correct because whatever the law says, if you say you have accepted £X 'in full and final settlement', you are essentially accepting that any claim in law has been fulfilled. I agree that your analysis of the intestacy is probably correct - but accepting 'in full and final settlement' is actually accepting that the law has been fulfilled.

madbadrob

ValHaller wrote: »

ValHaller's remark is essentially correct because whatever the law says, if you say you have accepted £X 'in full and final settlement', you are essentially accepting that any claim in law has been fulfilled. I agree that your analysis of the intestacy is probably correct - but accepting 'in full and final settlement' is actually accepting that the law has been fulfilled.

However if you can show that you were mislead into accepting the final settlement a court can set aside that 'contract' you agreed to. So for example if you are told that the estate is worth 10k and you are entitled to 50% of that but then are not told that in fact the estate was worth 25k you would be within your rights to have the 'contract' set aside and to be given the full amount of your share. No contract is beyond the court and many get set aside each year due to irregularities

Rob

madbadrob

On a further point if they have accepted a figure from the administrator this should have come with a full and final account of the estate. If it hasn't then there is a fundamental break in the accountancy of the estate and a possible ground to have any contract set aside

Rob

Wyre

Many thanks folks. So it seems a trip to a solicitor and a letter asking for the accounts is in order. I will let you all know how it goes.

getmore4less

Actualy there is a significant point I missed on first reading relating to the grandparents deaths.

on the first intestate death, when did this happen?

if before feb 2009 then there are different amounts so may be less than £250k before the children are due.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/IHTM12122.htm


if the estate was over £250k(or the relevent amount) then the children should have recieved a share of 50% of the excess at that time OR would have had to agree to it remaining in the house.

If there was nothing due at that time then there would be nothing due on the second death from the first death it would have all passed to the step grandfather and be administered as part of their estate.

Who administered your dads estate they should have made inquiries as these would have been needed if there were assest in trust(from grandmothers estate).

ValHaller

madbadrob wrote: »

However if you can show that you were mislead into accepting the final settlement a court can set aside that 'contract' you agreed to. So for example if you are told that the estate is worth 10k and you are entitled to 50% of that but then are not told that in fact the estate was worth 25k you would be within your rights to have the 'contract' set aside and to be given the full amount of your share. No contract is beyond the court and many get set aside each year due to irregularities

Rob

Note my careful use of the word 'may'. If the estate accounts are correct and a lesser amount has been accepted in full and final settlement without any misrepresentation, it becomes very difficult to overturn.

getmore4less

ValHaller wrote: »

Note my careful use of the word 'may'. If the estate accounts are correct and a lesser amount has been accepted in full and final settlement without any misrepresentation, it becomes very difficult to overturn.

It may be that the wife was not the correct person to accept this payment. she cannot accept on behalf of another.

AIUI it would need the personal reps of the husbands estate to accept any money from the estate of the grandmother and anything from the step grand dad into that estate for distribution. accepting lower amounts could be unaceptble actions by PR as they may not acting in the best interests of the benifitiaries.