Faulty Sat Nav - Section 75 Claim

belbo_bagins

Hi all. After a bit of advice.

Background: I purchased a TOMTOM online from Comet (20th Oct) prior to it entering administration for £113.98. Paid on my Credit Card (Halifax). TOMTOM arrived fine, however had a fault with incorrect route planning, finding location, etc. Couldn't take it back, as entered administration when I turned it on for the first time.

Contacted Halifax explaining I wanted a refund under Section 75. Was told that they would send out letter/claim pack. This never arrived within the timescale they stated. After a further phone call I was told that I had to take this up with TOMTOM initially, and they have provided me with written confirmation of this (I quote):

"You firstly need to contact the manufacturer of the goods to resolve the query. If they have offered to refund, repair of replace the goods you must give them to [sic] opportunity to do so. If they have still not resolved the issue after this action, please confirm all the details to us in writing, together with copies of the invoices, as well as any correspondence that may be relevant."

I was under the impression that they were jointly liable, irrespective of TOMTOM, and should allow me to submit a claim? However, I haven't managed to find anything specifically to say (in respect to faulty item; the wording is often somewhat ambiguous), so I followed this up with TOMTOM, sent it back for a free repair as still under warranty. Got an e-mail from TOMTOM to say they had received the TOMTOM and within about 6 hours a further e-mail was received to say they have repaired and dispatched the TOMTOM. Received the TOMTOM, same serial number/etc. and still has the fault.

Basically I am after advice for my next step. I believe I should now be entitled to a refund as I have attempted to get this resolved by TOMTOM. I don't believe that the goods are fit for purpose.

Is my best step to phone the bank and pursue this? Just write a claim letter to Halifax? Or pursue a replacement/further repair from TOMTOM (this isn't ideal, given it clearly wasn't even looked at by TOMTOM).

Many thanks for any feedback

withabix

Can you be a bit more specific about what the the faults are?

Incorrect route planning? In what way?

Finding location?

Have you connected to a PC and downloaded all available updates?

What model is it?

TomTom are usually very good at repairs and customer service.

What make and model is your car? (This IS relevant).

belbo_bagins

withabix wrote: »

Can you be a bit more specific about what the the faults are?

Incorrect route planning? In what way?

Finding location?

Have you connected to a PC and downloaded all available updates?

What model is it?

TomTom are usually very good at repairs and customer service.

What make and model is your car? (This IS relevant).

Thanks for the reply Withabix. Much appreciated.

Apologies for the lack of specificity on the fault.

I have gone through issues with the TOMTOM, so have attempted reset/latest updates/etc. I have no issues with the customer services - very prompt and detailed replies. It was just the repair turnaround which I found suspect; that timescale would suggest they just performed a factory reset or similar, which I have already done.

With regards to the specific fault, yes, the TOMTOM does struggle to determine my location, and frequently "looses" my location. This is tested on roads that I used frequently with my old TOMTOM (my previous TOMTOM had none of these issues, same location etc.) I can be driving along following the route, and then it will have me on a different road and getting me to do u-turns, etc.

It is a Via 130. Same fault in both a Ford Fiesta and Ford Mondeo.

chanz4

belbo_bagins wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Withabix. Much appreciated.

Apologies for the lack of specificity on the fault.

I have gone through issues with the TOMTOM, so have attempted reset/latest updates/etc. I have no issues with the customer services - very prompt and detailed replies. It was just the repair turnaround which I found suspect; that timescale would suggest they just performed a factory reset or similar, which I have already done.

With regards to the specific fault, yes, the TOMTOM does struggle to determine my location, and frequently "looses" my location. This is tested on roads that I used frequently with my old TOMTOM (my previous TOMTOM had none of these issues, same location etc.) I can be driving along following the route, and then it will have me on a different road and getting me to do u-turns, etc.

It is a Via 130. Same fault in both a Ford Fiesta and Ford Mondeo.

This normal happens when the battery is lower, myn does the same but plug it in and leave on charge off and will be fine

belbo_bagins

chanz4 wrote: »

This normal happens when the battery is lower, myn does the same but plug it in and leave on charge off and will be fine

Thanks for the reply Chanz4.

Afraid the same issue happens, regardless of the battery state. Had it running on charge and with a full battery.

dalesrider

belbo_bagins wrote: »

I was under the impression that they were jointly liable, irrespective of TOMTOM, and should allow me to submit a claim? However, I haven't managed to find anything specifically to say (in respect to faulty item; the wording is often somewhat ambiguous), so I followed this up with TOMTOM, sent it back for a free repair as still under warranty. Got an e-mail from TOMTOM to say they had received the TOMTOM and within about 6 hours a further e-mail was received to say they have repaired and dispatched the TOMTOM. Received the TOMTOM, same serial number/etc. and still has the fault.

Basically I am after advice for my next step.

Many thanks for any feedback

S75 is not just a cop out for people to get their money back. Halifax are right you have to try and resolve the issue 1st.
Other wise how can you prove breech of contract or missrepresentation.

But if this product has been faulty since you bought it then there is a chargeback option for faulty goods.

Given you have attempted a resolve with the manufacture and it has not worked. Then go back to Halifax. Get yourself passed the front line and ask for the dispute department. They will be best placed to advise on what your options are now.

belbo_bagins

dalesrider wrote: »

S75 is not just a cop out for people to get their money back. Halifax are right you have to try and resolve the issue 1st.
Other wise how can you prove breech of contract or missrepresentation.

But if this product has been faulty since you bought it then there is a chargeback option for faulty goods.

Given you have attempted a resolve with the manufacture and it has not worked. Then go back to Halifax. Get yourself passed the front line and ask for the dispute department. They will be best placed to advise on what your options are now.

Thanks for the reply dalesrider.

This is exactly the issue I had in my head - the item is faulty, and many guides basically say faulty==refund, but they also say you can't just use it to return/refund anything.

Will look to phone Halifax tomorrow. Thank you.

chattychappy

Halifax cannot demand that you contact with the manufacturer. As you correctly say, they are jointly and severally liable. It is the same as if I buy a tin of faulty baked beans from Tescos. They must refund. They cannot insist I deal with Heinz first. Indeed if I engage Heinz, I might lose my right of rejection (technically rescission), ie the right to insist on a refund. In this case, the fact that Halifax don't know much about tomtoms is their problem. They sold it to you. That is the legal position. CCs don't like it, and that's understandable. You would be perfectly entitled to issue a claim in the county court. Your witness statement would probably be sufficient. A video of it failing or whatever produced in court could be even better. I was in a court recently and the judge was quite happy for someone to plug a stick into a laptop and play some audio. Annoyed it wasn't disclosed in advance - but small claims, there you go. If you turned up and told your story and Halifax hadn't bothered to even look at the device then a judge would go with you. He wouldn't demand that you produced something from the manufacturer. So it's not for you to prove your claim to Halifax. You make your claim to Halifax. You only have to prove it to a judge.

That, as I say, is the legal position.

Practically, Halifax don't have teams of tomtom experts sitting around ready to engage with this. So they are basically saying we're not going to pay out until you've made some effort with the manufacturer. I would always cooperate with such a procedure provided it is not disproportionate in either time nor money. But having done that it's for them to either pay up, or at least take it up themselves. If you are reasonable in your belief the item is faulty, they should accept that or investigate themselves.

Ultimately Halifax (via the network) contracted with the merchant as a co-party to sell the item to you. They don't have to authorise transactions or even offer a credit card facility if they don't like the way s75 works.

belbo_bagins

chattychappy wrote: »

Halifax cannot demand that you contact with the manufacturer. As you correctly say, they are jointly and severally liable. It is the same as if I buy a tin of faulty baked beans from Tescos. They must refund. They cannot insist I deal with Heinz first. Indeed if I engage Heinz, I might lose my right of rejection (technically rescission), ie the right to insist on a refund. In this case, the fact that Halifax don't know much about tomtoms is their problem. They sold it to you. That is the legal position. CCs don't like it, and that's understandable. You would be perfectly entitled to issue a claim in the county court. Your witness statement would probably be sufficient. A video of it failing or whatever produced in court could be even better. I was in a court recently and the judge was quite happy for someone to plug a stick into a laptop and play some audio. Annoyed it wasn't disclosed in advance - but small claims, there you go. If you turned up and told your story and Halifax hadn't bothered to even look at the device then a judge would go with you. He wouldn't demand that you produced something from the manufacturer. So it's not for you to prove your claim to Halifax. You make your claim to Halifax. You only have to prove it to a judge.

That, as I say, is the legal position.

Practically, Halifax don't have teams of tomtom experts sitting around ready to engage with this. So they are basically saying we're not going to pay out until you've made some effort with the manufacturer. I would always cooperate with such a procedure provided it is not disproportionate in either time nor money. But having done that it's for them to either pay up, or at least take it up themselves. If you are reasonable in your belief the item is faulty, they should accept that or investigate themselves.

Ultimately Halifax (via the network) contracted with the merchant as a co-party to sell the item to you. They don't have to authorise transactions or even offer a credit card facility if they don't like the way s75 works.

Thanks for the reply ChattyChappy.

Really appreciate the in-depth information - glad I appear to have the correct idea. I'll chase this up, hopefully, tomorrow and hopefully will all go smoothly!

Thanks again all - much appreciated it.

chanz4

How much was it? Also if you complain to tomtom again , you may just find they upgrade you like they did with me a few years back

Dabooka

Just a note, but if the Fords both have the heated windscreen option, they play havoc with satnavs.

Does it work out of the car or maybe in someone else's?