Updating the boiler

Corneycobs

Hello all, I was hoping for some advice/experience with coming up with a solution to a problem we have in the home regarding the hot water supply.

Basically, we have a gas fired boiler in the kitchen that heats the central heating and the hot water. The hot water is heated in a cylinder tank on the landing.

We don't have a shower, so we have to do 'shifts' in the bath -- a morning one and evening one.

The boiler looks quite old and, although there's nothing wrong with it, I can't imagine its energy efficient.

I'd like a new boiler that gives instant hot water to a shower over the bath from the mains and also the central heating, and I'd like it to be in the cupboard where the tank is at the moment.

Is this possible or am I wanting too much? Also, if it is, what kind of ball park figure am I looking at (want a good boiler that will last)

HappyMJ

Corneycobs wrote: »

Hello all, I was hoping for some advice/experience with coming up with a solution to a problem we have in the home regarding the hot water supply.

Basically, we have a gas fired boiler in the kitchen that heats the central heating and the hot water. The hot water is heated in a cylinder tank on the landing.

We don't have a shower, so we have to do 'shifts' in the bath -- a morning one and evening one.

The boiler looks quite old and, although there's nothing wrong with it, I can't imagine its energy efficient.

I'd like a new boiler that gives instant hot water to a shower over the bath from the mains and also the central heating, and I'd like it to be in the cupboard where the tank is at the moment.

Is this possible or am I wanting too much? Also, if it is, what kind of ball park figure am I looking at (want a good boiler that will last)

If there is nothing wrong with the boiler then I'd leave it as it is.

Fix the issue with the hot water. Maybe you need to put the boiler on more often to heat the water. I'd personally leave it on 24 hours a day. The boiler will turn on after you run a bath and by the time you finish having your bath the cylinder should have reheated then the thermostat should shut the boiler off until next time or until some heat is lost from the cylinder which if the cylinder is very well insulated will take several hours.

How many units of gas do you use in a year?

What type and model is your boiler?

The average life of a boiler is 15 years. Even what you would consider a good boiler may not last the average. It's just a bit of luck, servicing and how much it gets used which will affect it's lifespan.

Corneycobs

HappyMJ wrote: »

If there is nothing wrong with the boiler then I'd leave it as it is.

Fix the issue with the hot water. Maybe you need to put the boiler on more often to heat the water. I'd personally leave it on 24 hours a day. The boiler will turn on after you run a bath and by the time you finish having your bath the cylinder should have reheated then the thermostat should shut the boiler off until next time or until some heat is lost from the cylinder which if the cylinder is very well insulated will take several hours.

How many units of gas do you use in a year?

What type and model is your boiler?

The average life of a boiler is 15 years. Even what you would consider a good boiler may not last the average. It's just a bit of luck, servicing and how much it gets used which will affect it's lifespan.

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how many units we will use per year as we've only been at this house for the last 6 months and I'm not 100% on what our winter fuel bill will be like. The boiler is an Ideal Classic RS50.

I would like a shower, really. I'm not a baths type of gal However, we have been quoted £1400 for an electric shower to be installed and so I was thinking if this boiler we have might not be the most efficient system in terms of demand, in the long run it might be more cost effective to get the new boiler.

At the moment we have the hot water set up to come on twice a day, I didn't consider having it on all day. At the moment, I find if I manually switch on the hot water after a bath, we're still looking at about 1.5 hours before we have any hot water to even wash up. Whether that's because it needs a good service, I'm not sure!

Leif

Perhaps what you are thinking of is a combi boiler, which heats the water for the radiators, and provides 'instant' hot water. In practice the hot water is not instant as it takes time to clear the cold water in the pipes between the boiler and the tap. You can certainly place the boiler in the old hot water cupboard. You'll need the gas pipe re-routing of course. A combi will supply a bath or a shower without need for a shower heater.

You say an electric shower would cost £1400. What is the alternative? Are you wanting to stick a shower thingummy on the taps? My shower has its own water feed separate from the taps. I have no idea why they did not take the supply going to the taps and create a branch to feed the shower, chased into the wall.

You might save money with a new boiler depending on the efficiency of the old one. I am sure I did although I never used the old boiler, an ancient Potterton floor standing unit.

HappyMJ

Corneycobs wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how many units we will use per year as we've only been at this house for the last 6 months and I'm not 100% on what our winter fuel bill will be like. The boiler is an Ideal Classic RS50.

I would like a shower, really. I'm not a baths type of gal However, we have been quoted £1400 for an electric shower to be installed and so I was thinking if this boiler we have might not be the most efficient system in terms of demand, in the long run it might be more cost effective to get the new boiler.

At the moment we have the hot water set up to come on twice a day, I didn't consider having it on all day. At the moment, I find if I manually switch on the hot water after a bath, we're still looking at about 1.5 hours before we have any hot water to even wash up. Whether that's because it needs a good service, I'm not sure!

Get another quote for the electric shower...should be much less than that...Mine was installed for £200.

You don't know how much gas you use so you don't know what savings you could make. The boiler you have is 80% efficient...which is very good. The boiler you could get would be 90% efficient.

If you were to use the average 16,500kWh of gas per year your usage would fall to 14,700kWh per year. You would be saving 1,800kWh of gas per year and if your secondary rate on your gas bill is 3.5p/kWh then your annual savings would be £63 per year. If the new boiler costs you more than £2,000 then you would have been better off leaving £2,000 in the bank earning at least 3.15% interest which is achievable.

It's not worth changing. You could also change your bath taps to incorporate a shower run from the hot water from your cylinder. Anyone could install them for around £100. http://www.amazon.co.uk/shower-attachment-Aero-Grand-Taps/dp/B001DGZE4W/ref=tag_stp_s2_edpp_url

Supermop

HappyMJ wrote: »

Get another quote for the electric shower...should be much less than that...Mine was installed for £200.

I imagine the cost is because of wiring being required and retiling. It is an expensive quote, but if it is more than a straightforward installation it will be more than £200. Plus the cost of the shower unit, tiles etc.

You don't know how much gas you use so you don't know what savings you could make. The boiler you have is 80% efficient...which is very good. The boiler you could get would be 90% efficient.

I had the same boiler and it fell under the scrappage scheme because it's efficiency was 65% (G rated energy efficiency). It certainly wasn't 80% as far as I know.

It's not worth changing. You could also change your bath taps to incorporate a shower run from the hot water from your cylinder. Anyone could install them for around £100. http://www.amazon.co.uk/shower-attachment-Aero-Grand-Taps/dp/B001DGZE4W/ref=tag_stp_s2_edpp_url

Check out the efficiency of your boiler yourself Corneycobs, but I would probably go for this option too, at least in the short term. Condenser boilers are ok, but a worse option when there is a big freeze (usually when you need your boiler working the most) as the external pipes become ice packs!!

HappyMJ

Supermop wrote: »

I had the same boiler and it fell under the scrappage scheme because it's efficiency was 65% (G rated energy efficiency). It certainly wasn't 80% as far as I know.

It's a G rated boiler only due to the pilot light. They have set them all to 65% no matter what the actual figures are. According to the manual the gas input of this boiler is 18.3kW and the heat output is 14.7kW. Divide the figures and you get 80%. I personally don't trust the figures that they publish. The savings they claim are nowhere what they will be in real life. The pilot light uses about 1,000kWh per year of gas...but that gas used keeps the boiler from freezing overnight. Modern condensing boilers will come on if they sense they are about to freeze using about the same amount of gas over the year.

southcoastrgi

keep the existing boiler good old boilers, get another couple of quotes for a electric shower £1400 is a crazy quote, you could also get some quotes at the same time for a wall mounted shower fed off of your existing setup

keystone

Supermop wrote: »

Condenser boilers are ok, but a worse option when there is a big freeze (usually when you need your boiler working the most) as the external pipes become ice packs!!

That's usually a function of poor installation practice rather than a feature (or whatever you might call it) of the boiler.

Cheers

Corneycobs

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've decided to stick with the old boiler for the time being and see about getting a shower attachment.

The £1,400 quote for the electric shower included upgrading the wiring to the bathroom, tiling, removal of a light above the bath, shower screen, shower itself and a whole chunk of labour!