Unemployment Rising Fast-By Area-All Time High Predicted

grizzly1911

ILW wrote: »

Surely your argument relies on the immigrants having some sort of capital (skills or cash). A lifetime minimum wage worker will be a burden rather than an asset to the country.

I would like to know what the benefits are, too, in our current position apart from the relatively few "skilled" individuals that are needed. We have high unemployment, limited housing in the right places and a infrastructure at capacity.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

It's great that you're starting to see the economic advantages of immigration. However if you think that the population of the world standing in England would sink it into the sea then you need to do a little work on your physics/geology.

obviously corect

each person could have about 4 metres by 4 metres on average

however as the top 1% will own about 90% that leaves room only for small thin people.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ILW wrote: »

. A lifetime minimum wage worker will be a burden rather than an asset to the country.

1. The vast majority of workers with the gumption and ambition to pick themselves up and move to another country in search of a better life are unlikely to remain on minimum wage forever.

2. An immigrant minimum wage worker is less of a burden to the country than a native born minimum wage worker.

ILW

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

1. The vast majority of workers with the gumption and ambition to pick themselves up and move to another country in search of a better life are unlikely to remain on minimum wage forever.

But entirely possible, there do not appear to be any figures.

2. An immigrant minimum wage worker is less of a burden to the country than a native born minimum wage worker.

It is not a matter of swapping one for another. Quite often an immigrant min wage worker results in a native born dole claimant.

Moby

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

And if it isn't good then the answer is what ? Increase the national debt burden still further by creating more non-jobs in the public sector ?

'Non jobs' indeed.....who would you call on in a crisis or desperation....the fire service, police, social services, NHS etc or would you bank on a rubbish policy being pawned off to you by a financial adviser!
Why are so many individuals so concerned about the national debt I ask....are they genuinely concerned about our future or is it just that they can't avoid using it as an opportunity to display their prejudices;)

leveller2911

Moby wrote: »

Why are so many individuals so concerned about the national debt I ask....are they genuinely concerned about our future or is it just that they can't avoid using it as an opportunity to display their prejudices;)

Basic economics, if you spend more than you earn you need to borrow.When you borrow money you pay it back with interest.

We are paying back a lot of interest.If we are seen as being a poor risk by the money markets then the interest charged on loans we take out in the future will increase.

All the time we have a lot of debt we pay a lot of interest..

So the question is what is your solution?

ILW

Moby wrote: »

'Non jobs' indeed.....who would you call on in a crisis or desperation....the fire service, police, social services, NHS etc or would you bank on a rubbish policy being pawned off to you by a financial adviser!
Why are so many individuals so concerned about the national debt I ask....are they genuinely concerned about our future or is it just that they can't avoid using it as an opportunity to display their prejudices;)

What are you going on about?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ILW wrote: »

Quite often an immigrant min wage worker results in a native born dole claimant.

But that's just absolute nonsense.

We have millions fewer Unemployed in this recession than we did in the last one, despite immigration of 5 or 6 million people since then.

If immigrants displaced British workers, you'd expect to see 5 or 6 million more dole claimants than we have today.

-Immigration does not increase unemployment in the native born population.

-immigration does not cause a reduction in average salaries

-immigrants cost society less in a lifetime than the native born population.

There is not a single economic reason to limit immigration beyond the existing rules.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

But that's just absolute nonsense.

We have millions fewer Unemployed in this recession than we did in the last one, despite immigration of 5 or 6 million people since then.

If immigrants displaced British workers, you'd expect to see 5 or 6 million more dole claimants than we have today.

-Immigration does not increase unemployment in the native born population.

-immigration does not cause a reduction in average salaries

-immigrants cost society less in a lifetime than the native born population.

There is not a single economic reason to limit immigration beyond the existing rules.

ah

a man who

-believes there is no limits to growth

-believes there has been no depletion of coal, oil or gas

-who longs to see all our cities double in size

-who can hardly wait for all those 6 lane motorways to be built.

-who will be happy to see all our limited beauty spots packed to bursting point

-believes whole heartedly in the ponzi exponential population growth required to 'solve' the 'problem' of the old

-fully believes a couple of studies by those clever chaps that used to tell us to join the EURO and to deregulate the banks even more

-who sees (dubious) economic benefits as the sole and only measure of policies and behaviour.

dktreesea

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

But that's just absolute nonsense.

We have millions fewer Unemployed in this recession than we did in the last one, despite immigration of 5 or 6 million people since then.

If immigrants displaced British workers, you'd expect to see 5 or 6 million more dole claimants than we have today.

-Immigration does not increase unemployment in the native born population..

We may not have dole claimants, but we now have plenty of "self employed", an ever growing number, in fact, who have taken refuge in working tax credit and the HMRC in order to avoid the hardships imposed by the powers that be on people e.g. forced onto the ESA off sickness benefit, or on the JSA and forced to jump through all kinds of mindless hoops in order to justify continuing to receive it. Anyone fancy an interview for a non existent job one and a half hours of travelling time away from home? Oh yes, and pay your own fare, out of your £71 a week?!

Self employed people who make a paltry income are not much cheaper, benefits wise, than people on the dole.

And statements like yours are easy to make, but every employer that took on a foreign born worker was free to recruit a British citizen and for whatever reason, chose not to. I would imagine some of those rejected workers, no doubt as able as their foreign counterparts to do the said work, are currently languishing on the dole. How many million are on the dole currently?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

-immigration does not cause a reduction in average salaries.

Hah! Tell that to anyone working in the building or cleaning industry, not to mention I.T. You must be claiming this one tongue in cheek, surely? I wonder what qualified motor mechanics would make of your claims, now that they are having to accept jobs paying £6.70 to £7 an hour? Or what about cleaning contractors having to compete with Eastern European families quoting the job to the council at £3 an hour?

Immigration, where insufficient jobs are created to soak up the workers, brings real incomes down due to an ever increasing supply of workers for too few jobs. The NMW doesn't matter, because the real setters of minimum pay are the self employed, if they are prepared to work for less than the NMW just so they can keep the cashflow coming in.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

-immigrants cost society less in a lifetime than the native born population..

Yet more propaganda. That's probably only because they arrive after their lives are well under way. Of course a 40 year old person, just arriving in Britian, will have cost less than most of the people who come from here of the same age. They haven't had to be educated here, for a start. They haven't been using the NHS for the last 40 years. But it doesn't then follow that they won't become a burden on our society in the next 40 years. Especially if they are the "down and outs" of Europe, arriving on these shores specifically to take advantage of our welfare system.

If we had controlled immigration, like they have in places like Australia, I would be more inclined to agree with you. At least there, you can't come to Australia unless you are either appropriately skilled, and in an area that Australia needs, or are bringing sufficient funds into the country to live on without recourse to public funds. But that's not Britain, is it! All you need to come here is to either have, or be married to, someone with an EU passport.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

There is not a single economic reason to limit immigration beyond the existing rules.

You think? How much is the monthly deficit these days? £8 billion? £9 billion? A huge chunk of that is our welfare bill. As to capping housing benefit, the government is dreaming. We don't build enough houses to accommodate our own natural increase, let alone immigrants. Rents are soaring. And the housing benefit bill is going to follow them.