nPower complain (official). What body to send it to?

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Thanks jalexa,
Helpful clarification on the point that, without the physical Contract, there is no Contract.
"Adam at npower", in the main Thread, has failed to explain WHERE an 'online switcher' can see THEIR Contract.
In theory it might be possible for npower to have this facility.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

undaunted,
we have 'cross posted'.

IMHO, in this case (with npower's broken system) I do not think npower can keep Sapphire.
However, Sapphire and others should make their case to npower if their 'old Supplier' will not 'stop the switch'.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

jalexa

undaunted wrote: »

But is there? IE, bearing in mind SLC requirements for principal terms to be provided within a reasonable time is there actually a contract in place before it has been issued to the consumer ..

I thought about that point just as I submitted. The point I was trying to make was that under distance contract law the cooling off-period does not begin until receipt of contract "hard copy". Not taking an entrenched technical position on "supply status", only legally the OP should not suffer detriment.

ISTM that SSE has been asked (nicely) to help and have declined. Next port of call is NPower. If (both) SSE and NPower think the supply agreement sits with NPower then it is up to the OP to take the next step.

This is not an insurmountable contractual problem, it's an early termination cost problem. In all the circumstances NPower would be stupid to levy ETCs, unfortunately I cannot say NPower are not stupid.

However the OP could choose to challenge contract validity, though I think that is a tougher choice for someone who has had to post here for help.

Sapphire

undaunted wrote: »

I would have thought the fixed npower deal would have a tie in and / or exit fee so you won't just be able to switch straight back once the transfer goes ahead?

The problem would need to have been complained of & not rectified 8 weeks or more ago for them to take it up but the Energy Ombudsman is a body you can ask to look at complaints. http://www.ombudsman-services.org/energy.html

Standard License conditions require them to provide you with specific written information on principal terms - and they should do sobefore entering into any contract . Full details are available on line.

You could try arguing this is an erroneous transfer & Npower dont have your consent

http://cfe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/44/~/what-happens-if-a-supplier-takes-over-an-energy-supply-without-permission%3F - there's a template letter here

http://cfe.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/304/0/filename/Erroneous+Transfer+Letter.pdf which

I suggest you send your supplier & cc npower rather than rely on call centre staff

That's very helpful - thank you.

Sapphire

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig wrote: »

Hi Sapphire,

I know just how you feel.
The whole saga (1) with npower's 'new system' has badly let down their Customers.
The 'switching sites' were also impacted: they had their Customers blaming them.
The Energy Shop, see their blog, have done a much better job than npower in giving accurate information.
http://blog.theenergyshop.com/?p=492

Customers, like you, are in a strange 'limbo land' that in theory (and law) should not exist.


What can you do?
Difficult to give advice. You might have to 'let the switch complete' and then 'switch away' ASAP.

I would agree with undaunted - best to have everything written.

What I would consider doing is to take your meter readings on 28 December 2012 and use them for both npower and the 'supplier you use after npower let you go'. This is not 'normal practice' but neither is npower's 'broken system'. In other words you will use 'zero energy' supplied by npower. Legally, as they have failed SLC 25.6, I doubt they will pursue you. Keep a close eye on any DD to npower that npower try to use.

Who can you Complain to?
If you have an npower account number (I had one in the days leading up to 'npower switching me without a Contract') you can lodge an Official Complaint with npower. I know you don't want to (I have read your posts) but it may help your case if/when you move away. In your Complaint state your intentions (that you will not pay for ANY energy and you want to stay with Southern Electric). So, I am recommending this for your protection.


If you email [EMAIL="consumeraffairs@ofgem.gov.uk"]consumeraffairs@ofgem.gov.uk[/EMAIL] (you will get an automated response) and cite the MAIN thread (see below) it will not do any harm.

In your complaint to Ofgem you can add your evidence.
Ofgem are aware of this issue.

I do hope you have a Happy Christmas (despite all of this),

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Notes:

(1) The primary evidence for this issue is
Warning: npower accept new customers without sending them a Contract
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4273611

Ofgem have made an official response see Post #134.

That's really helpful - thank you. The problem is time – but I have to do this. I am really fed up. :cool:

I don't have any account with nPower, since they haven't written to me saying I had, but I do have a complaint number that was given to me over the phone.

Oh, and by the way, Southern Electric really are not at fault here – they tried to get hold of nPower to reverse the instruction, but after being held on the line for a very long time, were told they could not do so.

I am going to write to complain officially about this.

jalexa

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig wrote: »

Helpful clarification on the point that, without the physical Contract, there is no Contract.

There is an element of splitting hairs here. I'd put it differently that there is a contract but the contract would not be valid. The practical issue is anyway not "contract" but where the 'supply agreement' sits from a supply industry perspective.

On the limited information provided, ISTM that it sits (or will in a matter of days) with NPower. My advice is not "legal advice" but "consumer advice" as to the most certain way forward in all the circumstances. A lawyer might argue differently.

undaunted

jalexa wrote: »

This is not an insurmountable contractual problem, it's an early termination cost problem. In all the circumstances NPower would be stupid to levy ETCs, unfortunately I cannot say NPower are not stupid.

When it is Npower involved I'm afraid that once they got a supply in I'd put money on them being stupid and claiming to have an enforceable contract here with all of the early termination fees they could get away with.

If I were the original poster I wouldn't necessarily accept what some call centre operator at SSE had said if I thought I could find a means of stopping them getting it in. What is there to lose by trying?

Wywth

undaunted wrote: »

I would have thought the fixed npower deal would have a tie in and / or exit fee so you won't just be able to switch straight back once the transfer goes ahead?...

The OP should seek to maximise any cashback for switching back. Hopefully that will more than cover any early exit fee

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Sapphire,
Another wee point.

Sapphire wrote:

I don't have any account with nPower, since they haven't written to me saying I had, but I do have a complaint number that was given to me over the phone.

In this strange 'limbo land' - in my experience, you do have an npower Account Number (see Post #3 in the MAIN Thread - URL below).
As npower have not written to you, you don't know what it is!
If you can get through on the phone, npower can tell you what it is.

In your communication with npower I would quote both your Account Number and your Complaint Number.
I think their systems 'link the numbers' but best to be as clear as possible with npower.

In your complaint to Ofgem cite your 'npower Complaint Number' (for privacy reasons).
If Ofgem want more information, which I doubt they will ask for until after Christmas, your Complaint Number number will be able to 'confirm the evidence trail'.

Very sadly

• you are not the only one

• many Customers are having to deal with a very odd situation

• all of this could have been prevented if npower had fixed their 'new system' back in September 2012

Warning: npower accept new customers without sending them a Contract
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4273611

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

jalexa

undaunted wrote: »

If I were the original poster I wouldn't necessarily accept what some call centre operator at SSE had said if I thought I could find a means of stopping them getting it in. What is there to lose by trying?

You may well have a point there.

SLC 14.4(c) says this...

(c) the customer informs the licensee that he has not entered into a Contract with the proposed new Gas Supplier and asks the licensee to prevent the Proposed Supplier Transfer from taking place;

Of course the OP has tentatively done that and been rebuffed, though I'm not convinced by the OP's "SSE cannot stop the transfer (they have tried)".

You, I and 25.6_Pre-contract_oblig might well think another more formal attempt is in order particularly given that SSE seem keen on maintaining low complaint rates.:D

However in this "time is of the essence" and the right time to attempt to invoke that was on receipt of the 'sorry you are leaving' communication. I think another poster asked about that but I don't recall an answer.