stuck on commitee of local pre school

jackyann

Uncertain wrote: »

So, you were on an elected body with decision making powers yet you felt you should have no responsibilities for the financial consequences of those decisions?

Who did you think were responsible?

As someone who has "helped out" on a lot of local committees, trying to keep services going and community efforts running, I find this a little harsh!
If we were all as "careful" as you expect us to be, our voluntary sector would be in a worse state than it is!

Uncertain

jackyann wrote: »

As someone who has "helped out" on a lot of local committees, trying to keep services going and community efforts running, I find this a little harsh!
If we were all as "careful" as you expect us to be, our voluntary sector would be in a worse state than it is!

Not at all. I'm simply saying that people need to understand the responsibilities and liabilities they are taking on.

Otherwise it is like signing a contract without bothering to read it then complaining about the terms later!

Savvy_Sue

charity92 wrote: »

Only hope i think is to try and raise some money over the next couple of months and try to increase children numbers. We have exhausted all free forms of advertising, we have a charity website/Facebook page advert in local village magazine on yell/Google Thompson local. I have dropped loads of leaflets in the local town and villages.

the suggestions I made previously may help with fundraising / applying for grants. But just wondering, what 'competition' you have (what about a merger?), and why numbers have fallen (other groups doing better than you nearby?), and whether this is likely to be an ongoing situation (because realistically, if it is, then a planned closure or merger is definitely worth considering)?

Also wondering if you could reduce staff hours / opening times / use volunteers to save money - this needs careful analysis to make sure it doesn't lead to fewer children.

charity92 wrote: »

The manager i think can form a business or separate community organisation and take on the staff so we don't have to pay redundancy or at least hers! it would be separate to the charity. There are many ways of doing this!

and is the manager keen to do this? However, you do have to be aware that if the staff are TUPEd over then I think that the new employer would be liable for any redundancies, and if she does the research she ought to then it may put her off.

charity92 wrote: »

As for not knowing i was responsible! the manager asked if i could help i thought the committee was just like a friends group etc that just helped with fundraising. I thought the manager was in charge! It seems like such a rubbish was of technically running a business :(with people swapping over every couple of years and none of us with any experience.

Technically, the trustees of a charity should concern themselves with governance and not the day to day running of the organisation: the manager DOES run the business, but the committee are there to ensure she doesn't run off with the money, that the groups policies are what they should be, that the organisation is on a sound financial footing.

and in an ideal world, you wouldn't ALL swap over every couple of years (although I've seen a number of groups where this happens!) IMO generally the best situation is where people serve for 3 years, and not all the same 3 years, so you get about 1/3 potential change over each year. Also helpful if people can 'shadow' for a bit, eg I said I'd help the treasurer of a local walking group because they wanted to 'retire' in a year. I was promoted rather rapidly when the treasurer had a stroke!

charity92 wrote: »

I am not a trustee but safeguarding officer

personally, I can't see how you can be personally liable if you are not a trustee, but you do need to check who your trustees are, and what the playgroup's governing document or constitution say. You may find that an 'ad hoc' situation has arisen in which reality bears no resemblance to what it should be.

Uncertain wrote: »

Not at all. I'm simply saying that people need to understand the responsibilities and liabilities they are taking on.

Otherwise it is like signing a contract without bothering to read it then complaining about the terms later!

I know where you're coming from, however I suspect not all committees / management groups are as careful as you about spelling out those responsibilities!

In an ideal world, before being asked to join this committee, the OP would have been given information on the responsibilities involved in running a charity, as would chunkychocky. They'd know who the charity's trustees were, there would be clear roles and responsibilities and job descriptions, and hopefully some of the useful information from the Charity Commission on being a trustee.

It wouldn't necessarily have crossed their minds how much responsibility this carried. If the previous committee members were fully aware of their responsibilities, they may not have wanted to scare off the incomers ... but chances are no-one ever explained it to them either!

charity92

Thank you. We do fund raise and have applied for grants but generally they need to be for something specific like equipment etc.... Not sure why number are low people talk about it being a low birth year etc..

We are also positioned just outside a town in the countryside. Lovely but a little bit far out for some people. We are surrounded by little villages hamlets but these are not densely populated by children.

As for taking over it as a business its more so the manager can make decisions and run it herself but yes this does need careful consideration. She has worked at the Pre-school for years.

Yes they were not awfully truefull but i appreciate it is hard getting people to volunteer to a committee let along saying by the way you will be responsible financially as well! most parents would run for the hills! so its a bit of a culture that things are not explained.

We have cut staff hours this year but need to look closely at September as that when most of the children go to school. Also we are just opened term time so that has an effect.

I think it has been struggling on and off for a while its just unfortunate that i came on to the committee at this time. i was hoping someone would be able to give me a magic answer of how to leave the committee but you get emotionally involved with the staff and children and want it to succeed! but at the same time i don't want someone chasing after me for there redundancy!

Looking at the charity commission website it does seem to point out that trustees and committee members are responsible.

But thank you all for the advice x

Haarlem

Charityworker wrote: »

I would simply just resign from the committee. Dont worry about the implications of the pre school closing down. Surely your bank balance is more important than that. Also are you a committee member or a trustee? You can have committee members that are not trustees. Look on their charity commission page and see if you are one of the named trustees. If they haven't taken any of your details such as date of birth and address you probably arnt as they need that for the site.

No, all Committee members of the charity are regarded as Trustees of the organisation that mangers the organisation.

"Who is a Trustee?
The Charities Act 1993 defines trustees as 'persons having the general control and management of the administration of a charity'. This definition would typically include:

• for unincorporated charities, members of the executive or management committee"

Also committee members of any organisation (does not have to be a charity) are liable for any claims against that organisation that cannot be met out of its funds

Charitymanager

Why don't you just incorporate the organisation? A company limited by guarantee is probably the most common. It would probably cost a few hundred pounds to do, but you could then limit your liability to something like £1.

I work with a number of unincorporated not for profit organisations and always without exception the first thing we discuss is becoming incorporated.

TechnoBoy

Don't panic.

Take your registered charity number for your preschool, type it into this website: http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk - if your name is not listed as a registered Trustee - you have no financial liability.

If you have not signed anything to become a Trustee - you are not one, and you have no financial liability. Being on a 'parent' committee doesn't make you a Trustee. To repeat myself, to become a Trustee there are forms that need to be signed.

I became a Trustee of a local preschool to turn it around as it was at risk of closure. I fixed it in 9 months - when I started they had 10 children, now they have 30+ and now have to turn people away. Fortunately I had the skillset to do the advertising and get numbers up.

So based on what you have said I believe your bank balance is safe.

Hope this helps.

Charityworker

Haarlem wrote: »

No, all Committee members of the charity are regarded as Trustees of the organisation that mangers the organisation.

members of the executive or management committee"

Yes and the management committee are chairperson, vice chairperson, treasurer and secretary. Other sitting committee members are not counted as trustees.

daveyjp

Get some advice from a corporate governance expert who understands charity law and social enterprises. The set up may need changing to reflect current legislation.

Two possible ways are to become a company limited by guarantee or a Community Interest Company.

Haarlem

Charityworker wrote: »

Yes and the management committee are chairperson, vice chairperson, treasurer and secretary. Other sitting committee members are not counted as trustees.

Sorry this is a common misconception. Anyone who has a vote on the running of an organisation has a financial liability for that organisation, and is regard as a trustee. And of course it does not have to be a charity.

From the Charity Commission website:-

Charity trusteesCharity trustees has the same meaning as in s.177 of the Charities Act 2011, that is, the persons having the general control and management of the administration of a charity, regardless of what they are called. For instance, in the case of an unincorporated association the executive or management committee are its charity trustees, and in the case of a charitable company it is the directors who are the charity trustees