When my dad was my age he owned a four-bed semi - so why am I still in a rented dump?

StevieJ

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Allowing us to build a few houses so we dont have to pay you 2/3 of our net pay in rent would be a nice gesture. Apparently that is too much to ask though.

You are buying a house aren't you?

ruggedtoast

StevieJ wrote: »

You are buying a house aren't you?

I have a house thank you.

StevieJ

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I have a house thank you.

Interesting, not so hard to do then?

ukcarper

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The question I favour is this one:

To anyone who thinks it's just a case of "working hard" etc....

If you lost your house today, and had to start from scratch again, could you buy your equivalent house within a five year period?

Majority of the time, for those who are honest, the answer is no. That says it all really.

If you mean could I buy the house I'm in now the ans is no, but if I was earning the equivalent to what I was earning when I bought my first house could I buy the same house now the ans is yes.

ukcarper

ruggedtoast wrote: »

They didnt earn high wages, they earned normal wages which entitled them to a normal standard of living.

Normal wages dont entitle you to a normal standard of living any more, they entitle you to a 6 month AST and benefits to top up your income because you dont earn enough to get by on.

How hard you work simply doesnt come into it and if you think it does you are in cloud cuckoo land.

What do you call normal

Graham_Devon

ukcarper wrote: »

If you mean could I buy the house I'm in now the ans is no, but if I was earning the equivalent to what I was earning when I bought my first house could I buy the same house now the ans is yes.

That's not what I asked though, is it.

I asked if you had to start again today....not if you had to start again on what you were on back then. That job may not be available any more. The pay for your job may now be minimum wage. That's all part of the discussion.

I'm asking if you had to start again today, with not a single penny, and work in whatever job you could get, or even the job you are in now....would you be able to afford your house within 5 years. Remember, you would need living accomodation while saving the deposit. You'd also need to pay for all the other things one needs, maybe a car and insurance for work, or travel expenses etc. Food, clothes, maybe feed your family at the same time as renting.

Remember, all you would need to do is "work hard".

GeorgeHowell

ruggedtoast wrote: »

How hard you work simply doesnt come into it and if you think it does you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Well that rather sums it all up doesn't it.

You can't really hold a sensible discussion with someone whose embittered, envious, ageist, dog-in-a-manger attitude to life would cause them to put up such a staggeringly fatuous remark as that.

Graham_Devon

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Well that rather sums it all up doesn't it.

You can't really hold a sensible discussion with someone whose embittered, envious, ageist, dog-in-a-manger attitude to life would cause them to put up such a staggeringly fatuous remark as that.

Nonsense. Have you actually thought this through?

If I give you 18.2k in Devon, can you tell me exactly how hard I should work to afford a house?

£18.2k is what my sister is on, working in the council as an administrator. You know, the sort of stuff so many people do up and down the country. I'd suggest she works hard. 5 days a week 8am - 4.30pm, and a saturday every other week.

After all tax and pension is gone, thats £14,900 a year.

Tell me, how hard would you like her to work? How many hours would you like to see her doing? Including the saturday, she does a 40-41 hour week. Or does her job (and shes by no means near the bottom of the pay scale in councils) not entitle her to buying her own accomodation?

GeorgeHowell

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Nonsense. Have you actually thought this through?

If I give you 18.2k in Devon, can you tell me exactly how hard I should work to afford a house?

£18.2k is what my sister is on, working in the council as an administrator. You know, the sort of stuff so many people do up and down the country. I'd suggest she works hard. 5 days a week 8am - 4.30pm, and a saturday every other week.

After all tax and pension is gone, thats £14,900 a year.

Tell me, how hard would you like her to work? How many hours would you like to see her doing? Including the saturday, she does a 40-41 hour week. Or does her job (and shes by no means near the bottom of the pay scale in councils) not entitle her to buying her own accomodation?

You pick an example of one particular person on a below average income and try to make a generalised point out of it. There are people on above average incomes too. In fact there always have, and always will be people on above and below average incomes, some of whom could not afford what they would ideally like in life. But to support a fatuous remark to the effect that working hard is of no consequence is equally fatuous. For some people working hard may mean that they at least keep their job. For others it may mean that they achieve advancement, or can aspire to change to a better job, and in time do achieve more of what they want in life.

Graham_Devon

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

You pick an example of one particular person on a below average income and try to make a generalised point out of it. There are people on above average incomes too. In fact there always have, and always will be people on above and below average incomes, some of whom could not afford what they would ideally like in life. But to support a fatuous remark to the effect that working hard is of no consequence is equally fatuous. For some people working hard may mean that they at least keep their job. For others it may mean that they achieve advancement, or can aspire to change to a better job, and in time do achieve more of what they want in life.

That's ABOVE average income here. This is the problem. You suggest just working hard, but even working 80 hours a week, (hard work in my book) it's still not enough to secure her own home.

So, drilling down, is working hard simply being used as a substitute for "having a better paying job" or "having a job paying quite a way above average wage"? If so, you certainly didn't need to do that 30 years ago, as so many who have houses now have had average (and under average) paying jobs all their lives. My mum and dad being my primary example. Lorry driver / builder as my dad was bought a house. My mum wasn't even working.

Plenty of people work damn hard. It doesn't mean thats the answer to home ownership.

Rugged wasn't suggesting people shouldn't work hard. He was simply saying working hard doesn't mean you'll earn enough to buy a house. You twsited that, presumably to create one of your "all the youths are lazy good for nothing" arguments that many on this forum appear to hold so dear.