Why is take home pay in the UK, so much less than other Western Countries?

GeorgeHowell

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Don't disagree with the sentiment that we would survive outside of Europe.

Don't S Korea and all those other up and coming exporters have a significant advantage though, in that they have a much lower paid workforce, with relatively poorer conditions?

As long as you are OK you don't see an issue with big pools of UK society being forced further down? I appreciate the west is doing all it can to drive up consummerism in the east and effectively push their cost base.

It doesn't have to be like that. The UK still has some substantial competitive advantages in areas such as financial services, hi-tech engineering and manufacturing, and tourism. These need supporting, developing, and nurturing to the utmost. Furthermore we don't need the bucket of sand represented by the EU around our necks. As a major trading nation over many centuries, and a former great colonial power, we have almost unique cultural, language, and historical ties all over the world, which could be exploited to the mutual advantage of ourselves and other nations.

We don't have to accept sliding down the scale, but it needs everyone to pull their weight. The class-based and industrial strife, dumbed-down state education system, overblown public sector, and sense of entitlement on the part of too many is holding us back if not pulling us down, and will continue to do until and unless things change. The world does not owe us a living, either as individuals nor as a country, and until the vast majority accept that reality and start acting accordingly we are at risk of becoming over time a second rate and relatively impoverished nation.

Zero_Sum

drc wrote: »

Btw, I used this calculator which I assume is correct http://listentotaxman.com/

The NI is wrong for those of us that have contracted out defined benefit pensions.

grizzly1911

The class-based and industrial strife, dumbed-down state education system, overblown public sector, and sense of entitlement on the part of too many is holding us back if not pulling us down, and will continue to do until and unless things change. The world does not owe us a living, either as individuals nor as a country, and until the vast majority accept that reality and start acting accordingly we are at risk of becoming over time a second rate and relatively impoverished nation.[/QUOTE]

I accept this if it works both ways. There are a number that play class wars in their favour who feel they are entitled to much, much more than anyone else, with inbred self interest. Who are quite happy to ponce off the many, taking advantage wherever they can and hide behind poorly constructed ambiguous law . The minority need to change their behaviour too.

Time for the invisible hand or impartial spectator perhaps.

Thrugelmir

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Don't S Korea and all those other up and coming exporters have a significant advantage though, in that they have a much lower paid workforce, with relatively poorer conditions?

To export. They need someone to buy. Austerity in the West will slow industrial revolution in the East. The world is interlinked.

My question to myself. Is where social unrest will break out first?

Moby

BritAbroad wrote: »

I live in the US and in my experience we pay significantly more tax than your calculation would suggest. Also, health care costs are very, very high - think several hundred dollars a month to have the insurance, and then you still have out of pocket expenses for every visit to the doctor, hospital appointment and prescription. The quality of care is not any better than the UK either. We also pay substantially more for household and car insurance than in the UK (my house insurance last year was almost $3000 and my car insurance was around $1500), because the insurance companies require you to have cover in case of liability or health costs.

Public services here are not good - I was shocked by the number of beggars I have seen. There is no safety net here and it's not at all unusual for people to be bankrupted by medical costs. The public education system appears to be mediocre at best.

My annual property tax is equivalent to what I paid in the UK for council tax, but with fewer facilities provided. We have HOA fees (a bit like factoring), I am lucky that my HOA is cheap but some are very expensive. My gas, electricity, water and waste bills are about triple what they were in the UK and there's no choice of provider either.

Petrol here is undoubtedly cheaper - currently running at about $3.10 per (American) gallon. Car tax is about the same as I paid in the UK. We also pay sales tax when you buy a used car.

Sales taxes vary significantly here, to the point where it can be cheaper to travel to a different city or county if you're making a major purchase and have something delivered, rather than buy it locally.

Things like clothes are generally cheaper, but the quality is not great compared to in the UK. Food in the supermarket is more expensive than it is in Britain yet eating out is cheaper.

I think the point is that looking at tax and NI alone only tells part of the story. Overall, I think the cost of living in the US is about the same as the UK.

V similar to my experience in Florida and California, (San Diego). The US is a place for rich people. Poor people suffer and the middle classes do ok generally but have to work their rocks off. There are so many hidden costs/insurances. Vacations are less and hours are longer.

N1AK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

I would not classify Euroscepticism as intolerance, although the federalists of course try to paint it that way. Cameron has stuck his neck out greatly with the gay marriage proposal, deeply resented by many in his party, in order to try to dispel the intolerant image. Beyond that I'm not sure what they have done that would be considered intolerant by the majority

Euroscepticism certainly doesn't have to be based on intolerance; I completely respect many eurosceptics positions and think an informed debate on it is healthy. I also think a very large part of the eurosceptic vote is based on intolerance.

I'm not concerned with what the majority consider intolerant when it comes to my own voting decisions. Off the top of my head:
> Say he feels 'physically sick' at the idea of ending the disenfranchisement of the prisoner population.
> Putting in place pointless international immigration caps that do little other than harm business.
> Deciding not to even look into drug policy let alone consider an evidence based approach.
> Incessantly encouraging the them vs us attitude between public and private sector workers.
> Continuing to disenfranchise young adults (16-18).
> Proposing or supporting ageist welfare or benefit policies (housing benefit).
> Supporting the idea of government sanctioned family size (limit of child benefit based on number of children).

I have a list as long as my arm of issues with Labour's leadership and policies; what I don't have is the same loathing for being put in the same basket with their supporters as I do for being grouped with the 'far right' of the conservative support base.

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

You may decide not to vote Conservative again, but I'll guarantee that if Labour gets in you will go through all this pain and grief again sometime down the road.

The reason I tend towards voting conservative is because I generally agree with their economic policy; there is however only so much intolerance I can overlook and they started moving rapidly towards that boundary.

GeorgeHowell

grizzly1911 wrote: »

The class-based and industrial strife, dumbed-down state education system, overblown public sector, and sense of entitlement on the part of too many is holding us back if not pulling us down, and will continue to do until and unless things change. The world does not owe us a living, either as individuals nor as a country, and until the vast majority accept that reality and start acting accordingly we are at risk of becoming over time a second rate and relatively impoverished nation.

I accept this if it works both ways. There are a number that play class wars in their favour who feel they are entitled to much, much more than anyone else, with inbred self interest. Who are quite happy to ponce off the many, taking advantage wherever they can and hide behind poorly constructed ambiguous law . The minority need to change their behaviour too.

Time for the invisible hand or impartial spectator perhaps.[/QUOTE]

GeorgeHowell

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

I accept this if it works both ways. There are a number that play class wars in their favour who feel they are entitled to much, much more than anyone else, with inbred self interest. Who are quite happy to ponce off the many, taking advantage wherever they can and hide behind poorly constructed ambiguous law . The minority need to change their behaviour too.

Time for the invisible hand or impartial spectator perhaps.

[/QUOTE]

I agree, class based problems work in both directions.

GeorgeHowell

N1AK wrote: »

Euroscepticism certainly doesn't have to be based on intolerance; I completely respect many eurosceptics positions and think an informed debate on it is healthy. I also think a very large part of the eurosceptic vote is based on intolerance.

I'm not concerned with what the majority consider intolerant when it comes to my own voting decisions. Off the top of my head:
> Say he feels 'physically sick' at the idea of ending the disenfranchisement of the prisoner population.
> Putting in place pointless international immigration caps that do little other than harm business.
> Deciding not to even look into drug policy let alone consider an evidence based approach.
> Incessantly encouraging the them vs us attitude between public and private sector workers.
> Continuing to disenfranchise young adults (16-18).
> Proposing or supporting ageist welfare or benefit policies (housing benefit).
> Supporting the idea of government sanctioned family size (limit of child benefit based on number of children).

I have a list as long as my arm of issues with Labour's leadership and policies; what I don't have is the same loathing for being put in the same basket with their supporters as I do for being grouped with the 'far right' of the conservative support base.



The reason I tend towards voting conservative is because I generally agree with their economic policy; there is however only so much intolerance I can overlook and they started moving rapidly towards that boundary.

If you believe those policies represent intolerance you are certainly not a natural conservative. You sound to me more like a liberal who recognised what a total pigs-breakfast Labour made in the economic and financial sphere and could not countenance putting them in again. You will have a dilemma next time because the assumption that they might get it right at last flies in the face of the lessons of history. People thought that Blair and Brown would be different and look how that turned out. The causes of the problems that they created prior to 2010 are I'm afraid hard coded into their DNA.

Conrad

grizzly1911 wrote: »

As long as you are OK you don't see an issue with big pools of UK society being forced further down?

I get very tired of the left constantly pointing the blame finger at nasty global corporations. It takes the spotlight off thier own endless self serving shopping around for lowest prices which is the real reason wages have been forced down.

Last night I was out with the village blokes and it struck me how despite thier personal prosperity they took great delight in finding low prices which relentlessly forces wages down.

I noticed on the family board here people even start threads in order to greedily find the cheapest malaria tablets !!!!!!!