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Why is take home pay in the UK, so much less than other Western Countries?
Comments
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Whatever the comparisons, in absolute terms UK public expenditure and therefore taxation is much too high.
Some of the reasons :-
The majority political bias is left-leaning which tolerates big government, and therefore big public expenditure.
No culture of economy, efficiency, productivity, or value for money in much of the public sector, where a 'producer attitude' exists.
Poor government at all levels involving huge waste, such as the abortive NHS computer system.
Membership of the EU, where we put in more than we take out and get precious little for it.
Lunatic, virtually unlimited welfare policies which put an ever increasing burden on taxpayers.
Huge government debt on which huge interest has to be paid.
Getting directly involved in massively expensive military adventure abroad.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »Whatever the comparisons, in absolute terms UK public expenditure and therefore taxation is much too high.
Some of the reasons :-
The majority political bias is left-leaning which tolerates big government, and therefore big public expenditure.
The fact that you don't like the level of spending and taxation doesn't mean it is too high, especially if the general view of the electorate is that high taxation is fine. You just have to look at the list of countries with higher spending as a proper to see that higher spending as a proportion of GDP isn't always a problem.GeorgeHowell wrote: »Membership of the EU, where we put in more than we take out and get precious little for it.
This always strikes me as one of the weakest arguments regularly trotted about by euro-sceptics. The vast majority of the UK is a net taker from the national pot. The argument against paying to help development in Poland is no more persuasive than the same argument for Wales or Northern Ireland. The growing economies in Europe are the Eastern European nations; a benefit of supporting them now is that as they become first world economies trade will increase and they will be in a position to support us when needed as well.Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...0 -
The fact that you don't like the level of spending and taxation doesn't mean it is too high, especially if the general view of the electorate is that high taxation is fine. You just have to look at the list of countries with higher spending as a proper to see that higher spending as a proportion of GDP isn't always a problem.
This always strikes me as one of the weakest arguments regularly trotted about by euro-sceptics. The vast majority of the UK is a net taker from the national pot. The argument against paying to help development in Poland is no more persuasive than the same argument for Wales or Northern Ireland. The growing economies in Europe are the Eastern European nations; a benefit of supporting them now is that as they become first world economies trade will increase and they will be in a position to support us when needed as well.
That current public expenditure/taxation is too high and that we should not remain in the EU within the current relationship and terms are of course my personal opinions. However I believe they are views shared by the majority of the population, and that big government loving Europhiles are now becoming the marginalised minority.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »That current public expenditure/taxation is too high and that we should not remain in the EU within the current relationship and terms are of course my personal opinions. However I believe they are views shared by the majority of the population, and that big government loving Europhiles are now becoming the marginalised minority.
Both perfectly respectable positions
All I will say about the view that Eurosceptics are the unrepresented minority is that is that half as many 18-24 year olds want to leave Europe as over 60s. We have an ageing anti-europe demographic which makes a shift in that direction increasingly unlikely.
The conservatives risk, with this and other issues, becoming a party beholden to voters who support views that put off independents as the republicans have in America. I voted conservative at the last election, but every time I see Cameron pandering to the intolerent or Pickles open his mouth it becomes harder for me to see how I can do it again.Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...0 -
Both perfectly respectable positions
All I will say about the view that Eurosceptics are the unrepresented minority is that is that half as many 18-24 year olds want to leave Europe as over 60s. We have an ageing anti-europe demographic which makes a shift in that direction increasingly unlikely.
The conservatives risk, with this and other issues, becoming a party beholden to voters who support views that put off independents as the republicans have in America. I voted conservative at the last election, but every time I see Cameron pandering to the intolerent or Pickles open his mouth it becomes harder for me to see how I can do it again.
Let's remember that is is the electoral systems that disadvantage both the Republicans (Senate & Presidential) and Conservatives, and their popular support is probably greater than might appear on first sight.
People change as they get older, and many of today's mature Eurosceptics will been pro Common Market/EC in their younger days. It's about the idealism of youth, and as they get older many people develop a more pragmatic view on things based on experience.
I would not classify Euroscepticism as intolerance, although the federalists of course try to paint it that way. Cameron has stuck his neck out greatly with the gay marriage proposal, deeply resented by many in his party, in order to try to dispel the intolerant image. Beyond that I'm not sure what they have done that would be considered intolerant by the majority :- cutting welfare in order to encourage work, trying to rein back on the human rights 'farce', trying to curb unrestricted immigration, and allowing people to defend their personal safety against burglars for example are all policies apparently very popular with voters. The left will of course propagandise them as intolerant, but the majority of uncommitted, centrist voters seemed to be pleased.
You may decide not to vote Conservative again, but I'll guarantee that if Labour gets in you will go through all this pain and grief again sometime down the road.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »
People change as they get older, and many of today's mature Eurosceptics will been pro Common Market/EC in their younger days. It's about the idealism of youth, and as they get older many people develop a more pragmatic view on things based on experience.
.
I overheard to supermarket assistants stacking shelves a few days ago, both early twenties, I would guess. They had both followed their parents voting labour and the one who had been working there longer (I've seen him there for a couple of years anyway) said he had he had now switched to conservative as he was now in a "steady" job with prospects."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »Whatever the comparisons, in absolute terms UK public expenditure and therefore taxation is much too high.
Some of the reasons :-
The majority political bias is left-leaning which tolerates big government, and therefore big public expenditure.
No culture of economy, efficiency, productivity, or value for money in much of the public sector, where a 'producer attitude' exists.
Poor government at all levels involving huge waste, such as the abortive NHS computer system.
Membership of the EU, where we put in more than we take out and get precious little for it.
Lunatic, virtually unlimited welfare policies which put an ever increasing burden on taxpayers.
Huge government debt on which huge interest has to be paid.
Getting directly involved in massively expensive military adventure abroad.
My views exactly. Hey I thought we disagreed in the past?0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »
However I believe they are views shared by the majority of the population, and that big government loving Europhiles are now becoming the marginalised minority.
Don't underestimate the power of the leftist glitteratti going into overdrive.
The left are very smart in that for example they dominate much of BBC Radio 4 comedy, not to mention Tv shos such as QI. Almost all the Radio 4 comedic personalities from Sandi Totsvig, Mark Steel, Mark Thomas, Andy Hamilton, Jeremy Hardy to Marcus Brigstock are left wing.
This is but one example of how the left manipulate the intelligencia message.
You would find all the left wing film directors getting on baord, people such as Danny Boyle.
The BEEB would wheel out nasty old crusties such as Redwood and Hitchens to deliberatley make the right appear out of touch. Notice they do this all the time on those Sunday morning discussion shows.
I think they have a good chance of pursuading the public of staying in Europe with thier scare message that somehow an independant trading nation is a recipe for failure. Poor old S Korea and all the other fantastically sucessfull independant exporters eh!:rotfl:0 -
Don't underestimate the power of the leftist glitteratti going into overdrive.
The left are very smart in that for example they dominate much of BBC Radio 4 comedy, not to mention Tv shos such as QI. Almost all the Radio 4 comedic personalities from Sandi Totsvig, Mark Steel, Mark Thomas, Andy Hamilton, Jeremy Hardy to Marcus Brigstock are left wing.
This is but one example of how the left manipulate the intelligencia message.
You would find all the left wing film directors getting on baord, people such as Danny Boyle.
The BEEB would wheel out nasty old crusties such as Redwood and Hitchens to deliberatley make the right appear out of touch. Notice they do this all the time on those Sunday morning discussion shows.
I think they have a good chance of pursuading the public of staying in Europe with thier scare message that somehow an independant trading nation is a recipe for failure. Poor old S Korea and all the other fantastically sucessfull independant exporters eh!:rotfl:
I would certainly agree with you that if there were an in/out referendum the result would not be a foregone conclusion, because the electorate would be so gullible in the face of propaganda from the bulk of the establishment in favour of staying in.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
I think they have a good chance of pursuading the public of staying in Europe with thier scare message that somehow an independant trading nation is a recipe for failure. Poor old S Korea and all the other fantastically sucessfull independant exporters eh!:rotfl:
Don't disagree with the sentiment that we would survive outside of Europe.
Don't S Korea and all those other up and coming exporters have a significant advantage though, in that they have a much lower paid workforce, with relatively poorer conditions?
As long as you are OK you don't see an issue with big pools of UK society being forced further down? I appreciate the west is doing all it can to drive up consumerism in the east and effectively push their cost base up."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0
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