Cost of living.. advice please

robbie1412

Hi, we are a family of 5 and at the moment this is what we would receive if we were not working.

Applicable Amount/Allowances:
Family premium £17.40
Young person < 11 £64.99
Young person < 11 £64.99
Young person < 11 £64.99
Couple with person between 18 > £111.45
Total £323.82

We are working although we are on low income so have also put in hb and a DWP claim. HB was less than 50% of what we need to pay and the DHP claim was disallowed .

My question is, regarding those amounts above, can anyone give me some insight into how those figures would be broken down into what was being allowed for the following.. either as amounts or as a pecentage

gas and electric
telephone
water rates
council tax
food
toiletries + cleaning
clothes and shoes
loans
school meals
insurance
travel
catalogues
tv rental / licence
entertainment
fines and court orders
other ( i put car expence down here although is sorned so just insurance really )

Because we find ourselves in whatever amount we put down, we get a responce like this

---

We have allowed £30 per week expenditure for your gas and electricity bills.
You state you pay £50 per week.

We have allowed £5 per week for toiletries and cleaning.
You state you pay £10 per week.

You state you pay £20 for entertainment, £10 has been allowed as this seems a reasonable.

You state you pay £37 for travel but £20 has been allowed as this seemed a reasonable amount too.

---

please any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

pmlindyloo

robbie1412 wrote: »

Hi, we are a family of 5 and at the moment this is what we would receive if we were not working.

Applicable Amount/Allowances:
Family premium £17.40
Young person < 11 £64.99
Young person < 11 £64.99
Young person < 11 £64.99
Couple with person between 18 > £111.45
Total £323.82

We are working although we are on low income so have also put in hb and a DWP claim. HB was less than 50% of what we need to pay and the DHP claim was disallowed .

My question is, regarding those amounts above, can anyone give me some insight into how those figures would be broken down into what was being allowed for the following.. either as amounts or as a pecentage

gas and electric
telephone
water rates
council tax
food
toiletries + cleaning
clothes and shoes
loans
school meals
insurance
travel
catalogues
tv rental / licence
entertainment
fines and court orders
other ( i put car expence down here although is sorned so just insurance really )

Because we find ourselves in whatever amount we put down, we get a responce like this

---

We have allowed £30 per week expenditure for your gas and electricity bills.
You state you pay £50 per week.

We have allowed £5 per week for toiletries and cleaning.
You state you pay £10 per week.

You state you pay £20 for entertainment, £10 has been allowed as this seems a reasonable.

You state you pay £37 for travel but £20 has been allowed as this seemed a reasonable amount too.

---

please any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

I am sorry but I am confused about what you are talking about. :cool:

Who has said ' you state that you pay.......... but ......has been allowed?'

What is your situation? How many of you? Who works? How many hours? How much do you earn?

What benefits are you receiving now and which benefits have you tried to claim?

You can put your details into the benefit calculator on www.turn2us.org.uk (Click on Benefits Search and you will see the calculator) to find out your entitlements.

miduck

robbie1412 wrote: »

gas and electric
telephone
water rates
council tax
food
toiletries + cleaning
clothes and shoes
loans
school meals
insurance
travel
catalogues
tv rental / licence
entertainment
fines and court orders
other ( i put car expence down here although is sorned so just insurance really )

I don't know the individual breakdown, the figure was decided long ago and then annually uprated according to statute. However I have highlighted the items that were not part of the calculation!

Edit: Ignore - I assumed the OP was talking about JSA!

robbie1412

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I am sorry but I am confused about what you are talking about. :cool:

Who has said ' you state that you pay.......... but ......has been allowed?'

What is your situation? How many of you? Who works? How many hours? How much do you earn?

What benefits are you receiving now and which benefits have you tried to claim?

You can put your details into the benefit calculator on www.turn2us.org.uk (Click on Benefits Search and you will see the calculator) to find out your entitlements.

Hi, when filling in the DHP form that is the amounts we stated, and they are saying this seems more reasonable, etc.

We are on no actual benefit other that tax credits, wtc, 50% HB and child ben.

Regarding the benefits calculator, it seems we are in a catch 22 situation. On income figures, it shows that one of us could claim income support of around £50 per week which would give us full HB and council Tax , BUT, if we got that, we would then have more wage to show, so we wouldn't be entitled to any income support. Its a circle. This is the reality of it though and this is part of what I wrote on my complaint for to them when they refused us DHP

---

To make it simpler for you, I will show you how we work it out, and then you can explain to me how you work it out different.

I'll start by stating the 'applicable amount' = 323.82 per week

anything below that amount would give us full h/b
full c/tax rebate - free school meals - free clothing grant

---

child benefit is 47.10 = 47.10 per week ( but disregarded in h/b claim )

---

current h/benefit is 95.46 f/night = 48.73 per week ( I'll come back to this later )

---

Our actual income is
tax/credits are 189.66 = 189.66 per week
monthly wage 746.73 = 172.32 per week

total weekly = 361.98

current rent is = 110.76 per week
minus current h/b -48.73
= 62.03 rent we have to pay ourselves

so, total weekly = 361.98
-62.03 rent we have to pay

---

= 299.95 ( which is exactly 23.87 LESS than what the government STATES BY LAW is the minimum amount we need to live on.

---

The reality of the matter is even worse !!
we also have school meals to pay for, £25, travel to work expenses £18 and council tax £20

Something that non working people do not have, so in actual fact our 'applicable amount' we are living on is £236.95. That is almost £100 less than what the government STATES we need to live on.

robbie1412

miduck wrote: »

I don't know the individual breakdown, the figure was decided long ago and then annually uprated according to statute. However I have highlighted the items that were not part of the calculation!

Hi there, sorry , yes, those highlighted ones are what you put down on a DHP claim, not housing benefit claim. So my question is, how can they see we have those amounts going out, yet telling us they think this is more reasonable. My initial thoughts are the person who made the decision is a single person living on their own in a flat and not someone who is part of a family of 5.

In my next few emails, I have asked her this..

Dear Ms xxxxxxx

I'm xxxxxxxx and am now taking over this complaint on my wifes behalf due to the stressful nature this is causing her and your refusal to issue a dhp claim on what are blatant facts already infront of you. Whilst you have tried to be through in your reply I feel you have missed 'many avenues' that are issues and could have been used that are clearly stated in the DWP DHP good practice guide.

In particular section 12, 30, 102, 103, 140, 150,151, 310, 372, 401, 502, of the DHP guide

and

sections 2, 3, 5, 10, < in particularly 10 ! ) of the Good practice guide . There are more but at this stage I'l leave there.

Please can you tell me who the council’s Corporate Customer Standards Officer is please, as I FEEL i need to take this complaint to the next stage. I feel that whatever facts we present to you, you are going to dismiss our DHP claim anyway. The last time we had issues like this with your department, it took months of email complaints to xxxxx and a personal visit to xxxxxx, who might I add, sorted the matter within minutes, not days or weeks. And he was absolutely disgusted his dept had not looked at the facts presented to them. Incidentally, can you please tell me if xxxxxxxx still works there, or if not, who now does his job.

The fact that you dismiss minor things like a £6.41 difference is exactly why my family are living in poverty. The fact that you dismiss things like a car because , how did you put it ' its our choice' to have one, without even asking us the circumstances around it. The truth about the car is quite simple, a year ago my wife had a leg injury which meant she couldn't walk far so could not get the bus from xxxxx to the 13 miles to work in xxxxx. A kind neighbour lent us some money to buy a car so I could take her on the premise that we would pay them back monthly. Due to our finacial situation, our neighbour has waived payments until will are better off. At the moment the car is parked up on a sorn off road declaration, so no, we do not choose to drive a car, but BY LAW we still have to pay the £45 monthly insurance for. Unless of course you are suggesting we should break the law? And have the car uninsured ? Because to be quite honest, I find you rather sarcastic in your 'this may be an adjustment to your expenditure that you may wish to review' answer to us. Also the fact you feel the need to point out our 'debts by loans have arisen buy £1000' since your last refusal of DHP' . Dont you think we know that? Now why do you think that might be? Because to us, the problem and the solution is in the same line. Had you looked into the matter fully, you would see that we have paid off over £5000 of council tax arrears including over £1000 of unnecessary court fees. Again, an issue that took months to resolve and ended up at the ombudsmans door.

Ms xxxxx would like to add this.

Another issue you state 'You state you pay £37 for travel but £20' has been allowed as this seemed a reasonable amount to .

Well, I actually buy a bus ticket to get me to xxxx which is £4.40 per day which equates to £22 per week. My eldest daughter used to try to walk the 1 and a half miles to school, but due to the fact that the school has advised by letter and email that white vans full of Asians have been driving around her school and trying to entice pupils in, it is advisable to either come on public transport or in groups, which is not possible in our case, hence the £2.20 daily pass Which works out at £33 and we put in an extra £4 in case any passes were lost hence the £37. By only accepting an allowance for £20, you give us 2 choices. Either I dont go to work, or my child is at risk of getting abducted by !!!!!philes. Which one should I choose Ms xxxxxx?

Another issue, gas and electric. which you have reduced to £30. As we are on pre-payment we dont get bills, so its difficult to assess what we pay and they last time we came into civic center, xxxxxx was disgusted that we had been made to search round for little tiny scraps of paypoint payment slips.

We get annual gas and electric summerys, and they state about £900 a year on each, Which, this equates to about £35 per week on average. This is totally wrong by the way, our payments are much higher, AND THEY WILL BE THIS YEAR as we are no longer on essentials tarrif for electric, but this is all we can use, and so should you, But its not average weather though is it Ms xxxxx? In summer we use less and in winter its more. Hence the reason we put in £50, there was no need for you to reduce it to £30

There are other issues, like our rent is £111 and you have £106 for some reason.

Also can you also tell me how you yourself would keep 3 children under 11 occupied for a full week on £10 Entertainment?. I would be most interested in that one.

Oh the toiletries £10 I put down that you reduced to £5 ??????? can you please tell me where i can buy toilet roll , washing powder, shampoo conditioner washing up liquid, soap, dissinfectant toothpaste for a family of 5 for £5 ????

I can't stress enough how I need you TO RECONSIDER THIS DHP CLAIM AND AWARD IT IN FULL.

The unnecessary delay and stress and hardship you are causing us, is only something that will be stated fully should this claim go to Ombudsman level. Please feel free to arrange a personal meeting as outlined is appeasable in the good practice guide. Unfortunately, due to illness, i am unable to travel, but would fully accomodate an home visit. I would like this sorting out before Xmas please, which gives you a few days. Alternatively, an interim payment to help our financial hardship whilst this claim was being processed would also be acceptable.

Please let me know TODAY 14th December what you intend to do.

---

Am still awaiting a reply, I don't expect one anytime soon.

nannytone_2

the amount you state for each child .....
you get that amount for the first child, but it is less for every subsequent child.

even if youre no better off ... as long as youre no worse off...

shouldnt you be supporting your family\/

too many people are concerned about losing out in 'free' money', rather than feeling that they should be self supporting.

dont make any decisions now, because once universal credit comes in, the people willing to support themselves will get the most support from benefits.

i hate this tory government, but tony clair and gordon brown made benefits a bormal part of daily life.

the OP states that they get no ther benefit apart from wtc, ctc and hyouysing benefit.
i see that as full dependance on benefit. or am i wrong?

robbie1412

nannytone wrote: »

the amount you state for each child .....
you get that amount for the first child, but it is less for every subsequent child.

even if youre no better off ... as long as youre no worse off...

shouldnt you be supporting your family\/

too many people are concerned about losing out in 'free' money', rather than feeling that they should be self supporting.

dont make any decisions now, because once universal credit comes in, the people willing to support themselves will get the most support from benefits.

i hate this tory government, but tony clair and gordon brown made benefits a bormal part of daily life.

the OP states that they get no ther benefit apart from wtc, ctc and hyouysing benefit.
i see that as full dependance on benefit. or am i wrong?

Yes you are wrong in effect Nannytone, because my thread was specifiably about what rates pro rata are applicable to said benefits if they were broken down into how those benefits would be spent.

When I do a thread on the level of 'applicable' amounts the government decide anyway, I'll tag you in it. By the way, I think you need a new keyboard as you have many sticky keys. Especially the bold one :T

robbie1412

midnight_express wrote: »

why did you have children if you can't support them ?

We have worked for over 20 years, full time at 50 hours each, and paid more taxes per day than you probably spend in a month internet access to come on forums and state pointless questions that are irrelevant to the thread.
But seeing as you are here anyway, I'll explain that unfortunately, due to accident and redundancy, we find ourselves in this situation.

princessdon

Is there any way your wife can get a few hours work? Also packed lunches work out cheaper than school meals. I do think its wrong that workers are penalised v benefits - but you may need to try and up your income and some things you state are personal to you, ie daughter not walking very high utilities etc. they don't often Cater for individuals in calculations

Dunroamin

robbie1412 wrote: »

Yes you are wrong in effect Nannytone, because my thread was specifiably about what rates pro rata are applicable to said benefits if they were broken down into how those benefits would be spent.

When I do a thread on the level of 'applicable' amounts the government decide anyway, I'll tag you in it. By the way, I think you need a new keyboard as you have many sticky keys. Especially the bold one :T

Nannytone is partially sighted.

Love the comment,

"We are on no actual benefit other that tax credits, wtc, 50% HB and child ben."

which strikes me as quite a lot of actual benefits.

nannytone_2

robbie1412 wrote: »

Yes you are wrong in effect Nannytone, because my thread was specifiably about what rates pro rata are applicable to said benefits if they were broken down into how those benefits would be spent.

When I do a thread on the level of 'applicable' amounts the government decide anyway, I'll tag you in it. By the way, I think you need a new keyboard as you have many sticky keys. Especially the bold one :T

im redistered blind ... so most accept my poor spelling. once i get 1 leyyer wrong, the rest follow lol