House in trust, new partner moved in with step Mother - UPDATE bottom pg 2 help?

Manchee

Ok so I downloaded the title register, and its solely in my step mothers name (I assume she must have had my fathers name taken off), under the charges register it says

C: Charges Register
This register contains any charges and other matters
that affect the land.
1 (22.02.2012) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 25 January 2012.
2 (22.02.2012) Proprietor: LLOYDS TSB BANK PLC (Co. Regn. No. 2065)of Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL.

Would this first charge relate to my sister and I and the second charge a mortgage with Lloyds? Is that right?

daska

Didn't for one moment intend to imply that you are, sorry! That was more to do with correcting NAR's post that your step-mother would only get 50% because she is more likely to get 100%, it's just that part of the proceeds will/should be a loan from the Trust. It shouldn't be a 50:50 split at time of sale because part of valuing the estate involves valuing the deceased's portion of the property and it's that figure which will be held in Trust. So your step-mother will inherit the difference between the charge and the sale price, i.e. if house prices have fallen her share reduces in value and percentage terms and, conversely, if house prices have risen her share increases.

There is a Land Registry representative on MSE, they may well come along tomorrow and give you all the info you need. Or there is a helpline.

TBH it seems a bit strange to me that you are beneficiaries of a Trust set up after you became adults but don't even know who the Trustees are!? Personally that would ring alarm bells - but that may be because I know of a 'Trust' where the beneficiaries have been fleeced of millions as a result the Trustees not safeguarding the assets.

Putting a charge against the property is at the discretion of the Trustees. My sister and I used our majority vote to insist that Dad couldn't have an unsecured loan from the Trust - mainly because he is the loveliest, most trusting, most generous and gullible man you are ever likely to meet.

Manchee

daska wrote: »

Didn't for one moment intend to imply that you are, sorry! Thats ok, its very easy for things to be misconstrued when written as apposed to said! That was more to do with correcting NAR's post that your step-mother would only get 50% because she is more likely to get 100%, it's just that part of the proceeds will/should be a loan from the Trust. It shouldn't be a 50:50 split at time of sale because part of valuing the estate involves valuing the deceased's portion of the property and it's that figure which will be held in Trust. So your step-mother will inherit the difference between the charge and the sale price, i.e. if house prices have fallen her share reduces in value and percentage terms and, conversely, if house prices have risen her share increases.

There is a Land Registry representative on MSE, they may well come along tomorrow and give you all the info you need. Or there is a helpline.

TBH it seems a bit strange to me that you are beneficiaries of a Trust set up after you became adults but don't even know who the Trustees are!? Personally that would ring alarm bells - but that may be because I know of a 'Trust' where the beneficiaries have been fleeced of millions as a result the Trustees not safeguarding the assets. To be honest, not much was really said, my step mother gave us a cheque each for £500 and told us that all their money was tied up in the house (which we knew) with his half in trust for us both but that Dad wanted us to have a little bit now, which was more than we were expecting, cos after all anything else would have meant her losing her home which we would never want. Maybe she didnt use the right term when she said it was in a trust? .

Putting a charge against the property is at the discretion of the Trustees. My sister and I used our majority vote to insist that Dad couldn't have an unsecured loan from the Trust - mainly because he is the loveliest, most trusting, most generous and gullible man you are ever likely to meet.

Thanks for the help you've given

daska

Give the helplines a ring. You should be able to piece things together with the details in the Will and then work out what to ask of who. Personally, in view of her buying a property with another person, I think it's reasonable to ask for any assets lent by the Trust to be adequately secured.

Trusts are quite specific, in that there are fixed tax implications etc, but also quite flexible in that there can be a very defined paper-trail with the assets fully secured and interest charged or only a nominal papertrail and a loan based on trust. My view is that even the most devoted, sensible and honourable people can suffer huge personality changes due to a head injury, dementia etc, so basing things entirely 'on trust' is potentially very risky.

Jinx

Maybe its not in an official trust? Perhaps your Dad willed his half to the children but gave the wife life rent of the house. (I know this is how my mum has her will set up re her partner - he can live there alone but if he wishes to move on and co-habit/marry the house must be sold and our inheritance realised)

NAR

^ ^ ^ ^ Which is why I advised to see the will and the EXACT wording.

getmore4less

I would go back and check the estate was administered properly.

Start with the will and the executors.

Were you not given a set of estate accounts and a copies of the the trust documentation.

if not that raises concerns.

You need to check if you inherited 1/2 a house or the value of 1/2 a house how that is held it may be that this should be held at the LR as the trust not just the SM.

If there is a mortgage that may complicate did it exist at the time or is it a new one

etc.

getmore4less

slight correction to my above post haveing read more info on this sort of thing.

AIUI the house can be in the names of the trustees as the legal owners and it is the trust that determines the benifitial ownership.

Land_Registry

The registered title would normally reflect the existence of a trust in the B Proprietorship register rather than the C Charges Register. Whilst it is possible to register a charge in the C Register in someone's favour this is rare when it comes to an actual trust.

If the property is registered in your step-mother's sole name then the existence of any trust element would normally be reflected by a form A restriction appearing as an entry e.g. RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court

Is there such a restriction on the title?

NB - there is no golden rule to this so the land register is just part of the information you would need to check - other posters have explained the importance of the will and/or probate as well but these are not part of the Land Registry remit.

If there is no form A restriction then it may also be relevant that the registered title changed in early 2012 - do you know if it was in joint names originally or perhaps your late father's sole name?

This may not be relevant i.e. was there a form A restriction in place before she was registered as the sole legal owner and if it was but is no longer there, then on what basis was it removed.

ThiI would suggest that this need only be something to query once you have completed the other checks as recommended by others. Clarifying what any will/trust states should be the starting point. These will help to clarify what the actual situation was.

If you wish to understand the background to the form A restriction and it's impact then you can read our online Public Guide 18 on the subject of joint ownership.

As you have a copy of the current legal title then there is little need to contact us further. If you can respond to the ?s above then I can advise whether checking the past information is likely to be relevant here.

hardpressed

It does seem a bit strange that as you and your sister are adults you were never shown your father's will. I had a step-mother who seemed very honest but we found out after she died that she had taken money from their joint savings without my fathers knowledge, obviously it belong to both of them and she was entitled to share it, but to do so behind his back without telling him was very distressing for him.