Employee could be getting sent down - what are my options?

Lifeisbutadream

Sooki wrote: »

I wasn't sticking up for him just giving another perspective that may help you, I was just also going to say that if he was a good employee you could ask for the employment issues to be considered by the judge which may help prevent jail.

obviously he is an adult and how he conducts himself outside of work is not your responsibility, and by the sounds of it there are other issues at play in the work place.

I wouldnt help to prevent him from going to jail, he had the choice of doing community service and preventing that himself.

He has had time off from work ro apparantly go to community service, so if he hasnt been doing that then I am not happy about it !


Also to the ones sticking up for 'ex-criminals' I have nothing against 'ex-criminals' but my employee isnt an 'ex-criminal' he is a 'criminal' if he is in jail. What next, should I be interviewing people in prison so that I can employ them when they are released? lol!

Lifeisbutadream

Sorry should just make it clear that if he goes to prison it would not be for the same offence that he was previously convicted of. This is for not doing his community service. Not sure where that makes a difference

SarEl

Lifeisbutadream wrote: »

This is a very similar situation. Thanks for that

Really? But what you have repeatedly described - at least at first - was quite different. If it is, in fact, a very similar situation, then it is quite different from what you described, and therefore I agree with zzzLazyDaisy: not only must you use the disciplinary procedure, but it is entriely possible that a dismissal may be ruled unfair unless you are exceedingly careful.

dacouch

denla wrote: »

I'm guessing you've been to prison before...? Yes it's judgemental but it's good judgement that every employer should exercise. I wouldn't feel safe using the service of a company who hires ex-criminals because I'd always be questioning their integrity. I'd simply use the same service from another company instead. And if I'm working for a company hiring ex-criminals, I sure wouldn't feel safe.

My local pub employed a new chef a few months ago he was just out of Brixton clink. Whilst serving his sentance he learnt how to be a chef and the landlord has given him a chance. He's a very good worker / chef and has turned over a new leaf.

If no one was prepared to give him a chance his only options would be JSA and / or going back to a life of crime.

Not everyone would be suitable to employ after a spell inside but I disagree that they should always be turned down.

Prison is about punishment and rehabilitation back into the community.

denla

dacouch wrote: »

My local pub employed a new chef a few months ago he was just out of Brixton clink. Whilst serving his sentance he learnt how to be a chef and the landlord has given him a chance. He's a very good worker / chef and has turned over a new leaf.

If no one was prepared to give him a chance his only options would be JSA and / or going back to a life of crime.

Not everyone would be suitable to employ after a spell inside but I disagree that they should always be turned down.

Prison is about punishment and rehabilitation back into the community.

Depends on why he was sent to prison, and if I were you I wouldn't hire him immediately after leaving prison. The rational person will wait and see if he commits further crimes within the next couple of years. Statistics prove there's a high chance a criminal will repeat his/her offence. If you leave prison and do voluntary work for over a year and get good references then it's a different story, but you can't honestly expect any employer to immediately hire back someone 'just released' from prison.

saintjammyswine

denla wrote: »

Depends on why he was sent to prison, and if I were you I wouldn't hire him immediately after leaving prison. The rational person will wait and see if he commits further crimes within the next couple of years. Statistics prove there's a high chance a criminal will repeat his/her offence. If you leave prison and do voluntary work for over a year and get good references then it's a different story, but you can't honestly expect any employer to immediately hire back someone 'just released' from prison.

Statistics also prove that ex-offenders that go into employment straight from prison are less likely to re-offend. The self fulfilling prophecy that if the 'rational' person waited a couple of years to see if they re-offend they are more likely to as they have not had the opportunity to gain employment and are therefore more likely to re-enter a world of criminality.

zzzLazyDaisy

To be fair the comments about hiring ex-offenders are a bit off topic. OP knew that the employee had a criminal conviction and continued to employ him. So whatever that conviction was for, OP did not consider the offence serious enough to dismiss him.

Going to prison, in and of itself, is not a dismissable offence.

So if the employee does go to prison, OP must follow fair procedures and have a fair reason for dismissal. With the original offence and the mere fact of prison on its own both ruled out, he must look for another reason. My own view is that being unable to attend work for 6 weeks (with time off for good behaviour) or possibly even three months, is probably not going to be enough to justify dismissal, as that is no longer a period than maternity leave, or sick leave following a heart attack (for example).

OP, you really need to seek legal advice. In the long run it will be cheaper than going it alone and simply dismissing the employee because/when he goes to prison.

getmore4less

Why not see if they want to resign.

I would suggest that time off for comunity service and then failing to do it might be gross missconduct.

See if you can get the community service records, match them up against the time off

dacouch

denla wrote: »

Depends on why he was sent to prison, and if I were you I wouldn't hire him immediately after leaving prison. The rational person will wait and see if he commits further crimes within the next couple of years. Statistics prove there's a high chance a criminal will repeat his/her offence. If you leave prison and do voluntary work for over a year and get good references then it's a different story, but you can't honestly expect any employer to immediately hire back someone 'just released' from prison.

I have not hired him, the landlord of my local pub has.

He served three years, so I guess it was drugs or GBH.

How do you expect them to survive for twelve months by doing voluntary work?

What crimes do you think he will perpetrate in a small pub kitchen?

The landlord knew the guy before he went into prison and is satisfied he has turned over a new leaf. If it was not for people such as the landlord this guy who has taken the opportunity given to him in prison to learn a new trade would languish on JSA for a long time.

He has a decent income, enjoys his job and the responsibilities, he has no reason to go back to a life of crime.

The chef is a genuinely nice guy, he's proud he's changed his life around. I think it's a good thing he came out of prison a better man who can become a valued member of the community, I also think it's good of the landlord to give the guy a chance. He's a youngish black man who with his record would struggle to find work, hopefully he will get some catering experience behind him and go onto better things.

Someone going into prison, taking the time to learn a trade and become rehabilitated has surely got to be exactly what we all want to happen in prison. Not everyone would or could employ an ex prisoner but fortunately there are some people in the position to be able to do it and go with their instincts

zzzLazyDaisy

getmore4less wrote: »

Why not see if they want to resign.

I would suggest that time off for comunity service and then failing to do it might be gross missconduct.

See if you can get the community service records, match them up against the time off

This may be one possibility, since that may involve a level of dishonesty. Less so, I would suggest, if the employee has been using up holiday leave, than if he was simply taking unpaid leave, or even being paid for the time off. The dishonesty, or level of dishonesty, may also depend on why he missed CS, and how many times.

The employee has not yet gone to prison, so OP still has the opportunity to conduct a disciplinary hearing and conduct a thorough investigation. Which would include investigating all these issues.

But it really seems that OP doesn't know what she is doing regarding her legal obligations, and even if she has a fair reason for dismissing the employee, it could still be turned into an unfair dismissal if she does not follow fair procedures (in fact the majority of unfair dismissals are for procedural reasons).