help!!! fraud

nannytone_2

dori2o wrote: »

Obviously it seems one of us would rather give the benefit of doubt rather than jumping in with the most extreme views on cases such as this.

Why when it comes to benefits does 'Innocent until proven guilty' seem to be thrown out of the window.

The other point to remember is that is seems the OP was not employed until March 2010, in which case the first Reply Required renewal they may have had to complete could have been in May/June 2011. They could very well have been on an Auto Renewal if the only income they had coming in was benefits and so probably wont have received the TC603Rnotes.

it's because the onus is always on the claimant to ensure they claim the correct benefit at the correct rate.

ignorance is never seen as a valid defence.

i'm sure it was an oversight, but if this is an accepted defence, then the whole system would be open to even more abuse than already occurs.

if a ckaimanr jnows gow to access the benefits they are entitled to, then they should also be aware of how any changes affect their entitlement

princessdon

To be impartial - We DO see posts on here where people haven't been paid correctly (they were underpaid) as they didn't read/understand the Tax Credits.

So for Tax Credits it is feasible.

Not sure how that works for HB as I have never seen a form.

dori2o

nannytone wrote: »

it's because the onus is always on the claimant to ensure they claim the correct benefit at the correct rate.

ignorance is never seen as a valid defence.

i'm sure it was an oversight, but if this is an accepted defence, then the whole system would be open to even more abuse than already occurs.

if a ckaimanr jnows gow to access the benefits they are entitled to, then they should also be aware of how any changes affect their entitlement

I am not disputing that, but especially with HB/CTB there is no calculation to view as I understand.

The other thing was it seems that OP was claiming TC between 2003 and 2010 when they were not employed, so as their only income was benefits they would have been under the £6420 threshold and would have got the full amount, even taking CA into account they would have received the full amount.

When they reported the change, that they were working from March 2010, the tax credits would have changed based on the estimated salary given to the TCO.

This would have reduced the tax credits in line with the salary due from their employment.

So as you say you should expect to see changes in line with the reported changes. Therefore again, the OP could have been unaware that this didn't include the CA as the only change to the TC the OP saw was in proportion to the advised income.

This could have been the same with HB.

This board is slowly becoming DT2. I offerred the OP help, advised them to notify TCO as this will be seen as a positive step when deciding on any potential penalty, as will co-operation with any investigation.

And again, unless you can prove otherwise, I doubt it was the OP's intention to intentinally defraud the State. Omitting CA is not going to make that big of a difference.

Adding unborn children (twins/triplets/quads) especially with dates of birth less than 9 months apart, giving them and yourself non existant disabilities, and adding childcare costs when no chikldcare exists are the big earners for fraud.

real1314

HB awards are sent with a full breakdown of the income that has been used in the assessment and a requirement to report any missing income. OP didn't report that their carer's allowance was missing it seems...

Also, HB claim forms have clear sections asking about carer's allowance:-
http://www.hounslow.gov.uk/housing_ctax_benefit_form.pdf

And not only does it seem that the OP missed all this stuff, but they also just somehow missed the same sections/questions on their tax credit claim. :cool:

real1314

dori2o wrote: »

And again, unless you can prove otherwise, I doubt it was the OP's intention to intentinally defraud the State. Omitting CA is not going to make that big of a difference.

You have formed an opinion based on virtually nothing. You "doubt" it was their intention, but you've based this on nothing more than a posting from someone who has been called in for a fraud interview.

Your ability to judge the quality of evidence is seriously flawed. :cool:

dori2o

real1314 wrote: »

You have formed an opinion based on virtually nothing. You "doubt" it was their intention, but you've based this on nothing more than a posting from someone who has been called in for a fraud interview.

Your ability to judge the quality of evidence is seriously flawed. :cool:

OK, then show me the evidence where an opinion can be formed that says the OP was intentionally committing fraud.

Like I said, innocent until proven guilty.

miduck

dori2o wrote: »

OK, then show me the evidence where an opinion can be formed that says the OP was intentionally committing fraud.

Like I said, innocent until proven guilty.

The fact that the OP would have received paperwork on more than one occasion that showed their CA was not being included in the calculation, would indicate that they knew the award *could* be wrong. Once they had doubt, they should have then contacted the LA/ HMRC to verify that they held the correct information. The fact that they did not do this indicates an intent to claim more than they were entitled to.

Innocent until proven guilty means that you start off on neutral ground and then consider the evidence presented to you. In this case, the evidence points towards at best, ignorance (which is no defence), and at worst, fraudulent intent.

real1314

dori2o wrote: »

OK, then show me the evidence where an opinion can be formed that says the OP was intentionally committing fraud.

Like I said, innocent until proven guilty.

Why would anyone expect to form a decent rounded opinion based on what's been posted on here?
You're a bit too keen to get your "opinion" formed to be regarded as having any rational judgement.

Any evidence of either outcome won't be found on here. It will be found in case files, interview records etc.

But here's some evidence to mull over:-

1. The OP missed out declaring their carers allowance on their HB form.
2. The OP didn't respond to their HB award which didn't include their carer's allowance.
3. The OP (it seems) also forgot to tell tax credits about their carer's allowance.

:cool:

dori2o

Look, at the end of the day this board is about giving advice on Benefits, which is what I have done. Others seem to want to argue over whether or not the OP is a serial fraudster. If thats how you see it then that how you see it. I doubt any of our opinions are going to change the end result anyway.

May I suggest then that we get back to giving the OP sound advice, as I have already done, and if you can't give any advice, that you refrain from posting.

OP like I said in my first post, contact Tax Credits and see if the CA is noted on there.

Secondly contact the tax office and see if they have it included in your tax code.

By making the initial contact it works out better for you in the long run.

Try not to get too stressed with it. If it was as you say a mistake then say it was. Just be honest. It will be down to the person who investigates your case as to whether or not they believe you.

It might be best if you can get everything down in on papwer before you phone Tax Credits and the tax office.

Keep it factual. Point by point, dates if you can remember them. That way you won't get into a muddle with everything.

TCO may request that you put everything in writing. If that is the case ask them for the address to write to, write your letter, take a copy of it, and send it recorded delivery.

As the period of time contains some years that will be 'out of time' for tax purposes, they again might ask you to write in.

Please also confirm the answer to the question I asked in the earlier post

You mention starting work in 2010, before that were you just in receipt of benefits?

If not what income were you in receipt of?

Do you have any P60's, P45's details of how much benefit was paid etc etc.

Do tyou know what your income was for 2009/10, 20010/11 and 2011/12? If you do we may be able to give you a rough estimate as to what you may have been overpaid in those years.

Finally use this experience to better prepare yourself for the future and any further claims you may make.

Icequeen99

I haven't read the whole thread, but OP have you told Carer's Allowance that you are working? Are you over the £100 per week threshold of earnings?

IQ