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The overtaxed middle starting to get seriously narked...
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How you can write what you just have without, even for a moment, reflecting on the Blair/Brown years, beggars belief.
It's high time the Left stopped obsessing about Margaret Thatcher and looked long and hard at the monsters it spawned in Tony Blair and Mr 'no more boom and bust' Brown.
You want an example of greed, avarice, lies, corruption and a total contempt for democracy? Look no further than the Blair legacy..
Compared with Blair, Mrs Thatcher was, indeed, 'The Blessed St Margaret.'
You are clearly not inclined to be objective on Blair and I concede I have a little difficulty thinking kindly of the Blessed Margaret. You can choose to dismiss my opinions as of the left (as if that instantly disqualifies my opinion) but I never raised the topic, I was just commenting on an ongoing debate about her remarks on society.
Blair was not perfect I agree, but if you must worship a false idol then carry on with your own obsession.:DFew people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
You are clearly not inclined to be objective on Blair and I concede I have a little difficulty thinking kindly of the Blessed Margaret. You can choose to dismiss my opinions as of the left (as if that instantly disqualifies my opinion) but I never raised the topic, I was just commenting on an ongoing debate about her remarks on society.
Blair was not perfect I agree, but if you must worship a false idol then carry on with your own obsession.:D
This is just ridiculous. You chose to wade into the ritual castigation of Margaret Thatcher's government for being the progenitors of contemporary greed, as if nothing that took place in the corrupt boom of the Blair/Brown years had happened.
You then stepped straight from Mrs Thatcher to the pantomime horse of Cameron/Clegg, as if the years between 1997 and 2010 had been erased from the records.
If you are going to hold to account the Thatcher government on charges of encouraging greed, and proceed from there to criticise the current pack of goons and yet try to pass off Blair's regime as merely 'not perfect' then you are beyond rational debate.0 -
Mr McKenzie is indeed right that the prosperous parts of the country subsidise the rest.
.
They may, but apart from a few hotspots, most of the rest of thecountry actually works and pays it's proportion of taxes too, both direct and indirect.
The fact that the wealthiest happen to be concentrated in the SE is a failure of successive governments, not the those outside the inner "sanctum".
This north south discussion is just divide and rule, the only purpose it serves is, to deflect away from governments failings.
As a PP has said there are swathes of London and the SE that are some of the poorest in the country too although they are trying to export them.
Probably find Cameron, for this lot, had a quiet word in Williams ear too, see what you can do lad now the Olympics are over."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
This is just ridiculous. You chose to wade into the ritual castigation of Margaret Thatcher's government for being the progenitors of contemporary greed, as if nothing that took place in the corrupt boom of the Blair/Brown years had happened.
You then stepped straight from Mrs Thatcher to the pantomime horse of Cameron/Clegg, as if the years between 1997 and 2010 had been erased from the records.
If you are going to hold to account the Thatcher government on charges of encouraging greed, and proceed from there to criticise the current pack of goons and yet try to pass off Blair's regime as merely 'not perfect' then you are beyond rational debate.
It is fairly typical of Labour supporter thinking in my experience.
Margaret Thatcher still causes them great trauma, as a right wing person who won over the country for a decade. They are terrified of someone else like that coming along.
Blair is still a closet hero to many, if not most of them, because he kept them in government for so long, and they can thus forgive almost any of his many misdemeanours (don't mention the Iraq war). Labour politics is very tribal and being in office for its own sake is what drives them. They can't conceive that the worst Labour government could fail to be infinitely better than the best Conservative one.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »It is fairly typical of [STRIKE]Labour [/STRIKE] Conservative supporter thinking in my experience.
Thatcher[STRIKE]Blair[/STRIKE] is still a closet hero to many, if not most of them, because she kept them in government for so long, and they can thus forgive almost any of [STRIKE]his[/STRIKE] her many misdemeanours (must mention the Falklands war that she did nothing to stop). [STRIKE]Labour[/STRIKE] Conservative politics is very tribal and being in office for its own sake is what drives them. They can't conceive that the a Labour governement can do no worse a job than a Conservative one.
Just as bad but you are blind to it."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »It is fairly typical of Labour supporter thinking in my experience.
Margaret Thatcher still causes them great trauma, as a right wing person who won over the country for a decade. They are terrified of someone else like that coming along.
Blair is still a closet hero to many, if not most of them, because he kept them in government for so long, and they can thus forgive almost any of his many misdemeanours (don't mention the Iraq war). Labour politics is very tribal and being in office for its own sake is what drives them. They can't conceive that the worst Labour government could fail to be infinitely better than the best Conservative one.
It was Mrs Thatcher who stirred my interest in politics, at first positively, and it was "that woman" who made me hate what she did to this country. I actually agree with your statement in bold. I think Cameron is that man, controlled to a degree at the moment by the Lib Dems I voted for. The arguably misquoted statement about society is also part of the trauma you mock. I watched my disabled grandfather (a veteren of two world wars who saw action in three continents) suffering at the hands of overstretched health and social services due to that woman's spending cuts. He too had voted Tory all his life and died disappointed with how they had treated him in his last days.
To A Badger's point, I did not ignore the Blair years, they were just not relevent to the things I commented upon in my view. As to Blair himself, he is clearly a source of trauma to Thatcher worshippers like A Badger, but he must have done something right since he has also upset the far left.
To me Blair did a reasonable job. I am not one of those with hindsight who slate him for Iraq. He had to make a decision and he did, it was the right decision (IMO) at the time he made it but not with hindsight. When Blair left office I felt we had repaired the divisiveness,greed and selfishness of Thatcher to a degree and that educational opportunity and effective healthcare services were largely being restored. Blair and Brown did some things I did not like but I think they were more right than wrong.
But you are right that many on the left still fear her "second coming". Personally I would be content with a permanent moderate coalition government elected by PR. But now that the Lib Dems have imploded its difficult to see how this will ever be achieved.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
This is just ridiculous. You chose to wade into the ritual castigation of Margaret Thatcher's government for being the progenitors of contemporary greed, as if nothing that took place in the corrupt boom of the Blair/Brown years had happened.
You then stepped straight from Mrs Thatcher to the pantomime horse of Cameron/Clegg, as if the years between 1997 and 2010 had been erased from the records.
If you are going to hold to account the Thatcher government on charges of encouraging greed, and proceed from there to criticise the current pack of goons and yet try to pass off Blair's regime as merely 'not perfect' then you are beyond rational debate.
Ridiculous? You think your defence of Thatcher or hatred of Blair/Brown is rational? Dear me!:rotfl:Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »The fact that the wealthiest happen to be concentrated in the SE is a failure of successive governments, not the those outside the inner "sanctum".
A concentration of very specific industries. That are grouped for good reason. Expertise.
So not a failure of Government.0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »A concentration of very specific industries. That are grouped for good reason. Expertise.
So not a failure of Government.
The failure was in allowing the country to become so heavily dependent on them. Eggs and baskets."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »GeorgeHowell wrote: »It is fairly typical of [STRIKE]Labour [/STRIKE] Conservative supporter thinking in my experience.
Thatcher[STRIKE]Blair[/STRIKE] is still a closet hero to many, if not most of them, because she kept them in government for so long, and they can thus forgive almost any of [STRIKE]his[/STRIKE] her many misdemeanours (must mention the Falklands war that she did nothing to stop). [STRIKE]Labour[/STRIKE] Conservative politics is very tribal and being in office for its own sake is what drives them. They can't conceive that the a Labour governement can do no worse a job than a Conservative one.
Just as bad but you are blind to it.
And there was me thinking that you were one of those who is above the playground-type, "No, you are too !" style of debate.
By the way most people supported the Falklands War, whereas most didn't support the Iraq one, especially when they found out we were sold a pup to justify it.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0
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