The overtaxed middle starting to get seriously narked...

MacMickster

A._Badger wrote: »

Could you remind us when Mrs Thatcher said that?

Just for the sake of accuracy, you understand...

Whilst Maggie never used that phrase, (it was uttered by Gordon Gekko in the film Wall Street, which was inspired by the big Ivan Boesky insider trading scandal of the day) the phrase became synonymous with the philosophies of Thatcher, Reagan and Friedman in the day. Harry Enfield's "Loadsamoney" is another character based on that 80s culture of the worship of money.

A quote that you can attribute to Maggie is "there is no such thing as society". Another example of the every man (or iron lady) for themselves attitude that she so loved. Why should people like PaulF or The White Horse pay taxes to support anyone else. They truly love their money and should be allowed to keep it all. Some people are truly children of the 80s.

A._Badger

MacMickster wrote: »

Whilst Maggie never used that phrase, (it was uttered by Gordon Gekko in the film Wall Street, which was inspired by the big Ivan Boesky insider trading scandal of the day) the phrase became synonymous with the philosophies of Thatcher, Reagan and Friedman in the day. Harry Enfield's "Loadsamoney" is another character based on that 80s culture of the worship of money.

Thank you for confirming my point. You deliberately misattributed a fictional quote, in the cause of Labourite propaganda.

A more thoughtful observer from the Left (if that isn't an oxymoron) might have kept quiet in the face of the actual greed exhibited by Tony Blair and the generation of jackals that brought about the present economic chaos - chaos used by Blair and Brown to further their own ambitions. And in Blair's case, in particular, his vast personal fortune.

MacMickster wrote: »

A quote that you can attribute to Maggie is "there is no such thing as society". Another example of the every man (or iron lady) for themselves attitude that she so loved. Why should people like PaulF or The White Horse pay taxes to support anyone else. They truly love their money and should be allowed to keep it all. Some people are truly children of the 80s.

Meanwhile, here is the actual quote given to Womans Own magazine. So why not hang up your donkey jacket and read it?

“I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand 'I have a problem, it is the Government’s job to cope with it’ … and so they are casting their problems upon society, and who is society? There are individual men and women and there are families, and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then after our neighbour … and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations.”

As the journalist Charles Moore observes: "A little further on, she repeated her point, using the exact words, “There is no such thing as society”.!

Not exactly a leader from Der Sturmer, is it?

CLAPTON

for those that believe than 'C nut' tried to hold back the waves (sorry the thought police require that our former king's name is pornographic (remove the space between C and nut)

Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to
Women's Own magazine, October 31 1987
"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

kabayiri

We've had London-centric policy for at least 2 decades, probably 3. For a long time there was a view that it wasn't even worth bothering trying to make stuff. Finance / Legal Services / Advertising & Marketing -- these were the really juicy things to focus on. Typically this is where a city excels, providing a concentrated mass of people with skills in these areas.

So why the 'Quel Surprise' that we have relatively poor regions?

It's no accident, just a reflection that we haven't found viable substitutes for the loss of shipbuilding or coal mining etc.

Just see it like a form of overseas aid without the overseas bit

MacMickster

I don't think that I ever attributed the quote to Maggie, and I am certainly no supporter of Labour.

Most of my friends regard me as fairly right wing in my attitudes. Although I have no dogmatic attachment to any political ideology, Maggie would have described me as a whet. I do, however, despise the attitudes of some contributors to this forum, for whom life seems to have no greater goal than accumulating money then trying to hang on to every single penny. I also despise Maggie for helping to breed such attitudes.

I have worn a donkey jacket in my working life, and have also run my own business for many years. I am now semi-retired.

And, by the way, you seem to have misquoted Maggie yourself.

From http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/106689

and who is society? There is no such thing!

If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society.[fo 30] There is living tapestry of men and women

.

Perhaps you should go back to reading your Woman's Own eh?

A._Badger

MacMickster wrote: »

Perhaps you should go back to reading your Woman's Own eh?

And you should reread my post a little more carefully - noting the word 'repeating'.

I'm sure Margaret Thatcher's legacy will survive both your contempt and your complete mischaracterisation of her period in Government. Harry Enfield's, too, I shouldn't wonder. A fan of Blair, wasn't he?

MacMickster

A._Badger wrote: »

And you should reread my post a little more carefully - noting the word 'repeating'.

I'd rather not. I certainly don't want your post repeating on me. I was feeling quite bilious when I read it the first time.

BobQ

I had wondered when this intellectual pigmy might surface.

I guess he thinks he has done enouugh to apologise to the people of Liverpool for his shameful behaviour. Sorry Kelvin they still think you are less useful than rat sh?t. But keep trying humility might suit you one day.

CLAPTON

kabayiri wrote: »

We've had London-centric policy for at least 2 decades, probably 3. For a long time there was a view that it wasn't even worth bothering trying to make stuff. Finance / Legal Services / Advertising & Marketing -- these were the really juicy things to focus on. Typically this is where a city excels, providing a concentrated mass of people with skills in these areas.

So why the 'Quel Surprise' that we have relatively poor regions?

It's no accident, just a reflection that we haven't found viable substitutes for the loss of shipbuilding or coal mining etc.

Just see it like a form of overseas aid without the overseas bit

In what way did we have a London centric policy... were there special subsidies for London based companies or specially cheap housing to attract workers? How did it work?

Who had the view it wasn't worth making things any more? Maybe you mean that British people didn't buy rubbish british produced goods anymore?

Maybe the Government should have poured even more taxpayers money down the drain supporting rubbish car and steel makers?

Real jobs have to be created by real companies selling whatever people will buy from them. If that product is insurance for shipping rather than the ship then so beit.

If we 'refocus' now it won't be any thanks to government policy but individual companies making profit orientated decisions.

kabayiri

Deregulation of the credit markets for one was a specific policy. Are you saying there wasn't a specific aim to make London one of the foremost finance centres in the world?