Looking for some advice please RE storage heaters and prepayment meters

Cbe2012

Yes same for us then, I've got the doors closed but we don't have heating in the hall or landing, and the bedroom heaters are off. I do have the bathroom on just to dry towels after we've used them. I don't have a thermometer but you can see our breath in the hall and upstairs... Hopefully the weather will warm up a little soon!
We do have a calor gas heater in the kitchen which gets us nice and warm downstairs, but I turn it off when LO goes to bed, and the heat disappears straight away (This is a very modern new heater and we have it in the kitchen with a stair gate on the door)

Richie-from-the-Boro

Most E7 E10 customers are on a payment plan, ie ≥ annual consumption ÷ 12 you pay more or less the same all year building up a surplus in the summer which is in turn eaten up in the winter. If night store users are paying only for what they use when the use it it clearly means astro bills in the winter months. The much more objective question is how much is the annual kW consumption ÷ 12 and how much is the annual price ÷ 12.

If you pay £40 a month in the summer and £200 a month in the winter you should be banking that £xtra saving per summer month or what you know is going to come. Difficult I know, but its gonna come back and bite you if you don't. Bathroom and kitchens should never have storage heaters and installed that way, in fact its against recommendation unless its an extreme size room.' panel or other variant - never storage. Those heater would be much more effective elsewhere always on an internal wall.

A major cause of dampness that can be controlled is the use of paraffin or Calor gas as a form of heating. 5 litres of water will be produced from 5 litres of paraffin, Calor gas heaters is 5 litres of water to 1 kg of gas use.

Cbe2012

Yes that makes sense, but we pay £80 through the summer.

Sorry to sound stupid, but why shouldn't bathrooms or kitchens have storage heaters? The bathroom is quite small, and the kitchen isn't particually big.

Also, all the heaters are on outside walls, the lounge and bedroom under the front window. Should they not have been put there?

The damp has been a problem for a few years, we've only just been given the calor gas heater so that can't be the problem.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Cbe2012 wrote: »

Yes that makes sense, but we pay £80 through the summer.

Sorry to sound stupid, but why shouldn't bathrooms or kitchens have storage heaters? The bathroom is quite small, and the kitchen isn't particually big.

Also, all the heaters are on outside walls, the lounge and bedroom under the front window. Should they not have been put there?

The damp has been a problem for a few years, we've only just been given the Calor gas heater so that can't be the problem.

None - ZERO should be on outside walls in a poorly insulated or even average insulated home.
Calor won't be you only problem, but is one you can solve - 5ltrs vapour per kg gas extra adding to your problem.
Outside walls under cold windows is ok only if you live in Energy Performance Certificate Band D or better dwelling.
A switch on and off panel heater is all that's needed in a kitchen or bathroom, they're not living areas.
Those two repositioned will be a benefit, all 4 repositioned will be a much better benefit.

Get yourself a large long coffee and have a read, then get back to me in about an hour.

HappyMJ

Cbe2012 wrote: »

Sorry to sound stupid, but why shouldn't bathrooms or kitchens have storage heaters? The bathroom is quite small, and the kitchen isn't particually big.

No storage heaters in the bathroom as you aren't in the room for very long so it's cheaper to use an instant source of heat even though the per unit rate is higher you would only use it for about 15 minutes per day depending on how long you spend in the shower/toilet.

In the kitchen you are generally standing and cooking in front of a hot stove for not very long. The excess heat from the stove can help heat you and if you move around cooking and washing up you don't really need a huge amount of heat so just use a convector heater for the half an hour or so that you are actually in the kitchen as it's also cheaper than 7 hours of E7.

You also don't need storage heaters in the bedroom as you aren't in the room in the day time when the heat is released from the heater. Time a convector heater to come on for an hour before you wake up. If the room is too cold overnight use a low powered oil filled radiator for a bit of background heat and use electric blankets as they are much cheaper to run.

Richie-from-the-Boro

"""ZERO should be on outside walls in a poorly insulated or even average insulated home"""

I should have added the exception to that rule, unless you have an 8 x 5 foot - cold single glazed picture window.

grahamc2003

Storage heaters needn't be expensive if they are the slimline modern type, used correctly and in a place with decent insulation - if any one of those three aren't met, then they're likely to be ineffective and/or expensive.

To use them correctly (i.e. to get the most useful heat for cost) ensure the output is set to zero last thing at night. Turn it to maximum when you need more heat later in the following day. Operate the input depending on whether overall you're getting enough heat the next day (i.e. in the unlikely event the heater is still quite hot last thing at night, then turn the input down, but a more likely situation if the heater is old is that the input is set to maximum and it's cold last thing at night).

One big cost saving with storage heaters is the lack of maintenance and servicing - which offsets some of the extra running costs (over gas for example). Of course, your landlord/relative gains from that and you lose out due to increased running costs, perhaps you should ask him to contribute his saving to you?

The +calor heater is a bad idea in a house with damp - it simply makes it worse. The more damp, the more heat you need to raise the temperature, the more the structure of the house suffers, and the more you breath in mould spores, the more chances of wet and dry rot.

I'd replace the calor heater with a dehumidifier - it's in your landlords interest to do that so perhaps he could fund it. Use it during the overnight cheap period, a 250W one would cost about 10p over the cheap 7 hours, and would heat the room a little.

Check all outside doors around the frame for draughts - also the letterbox. But really, if you have poor insulation and old storage heaters it will be very difficult to get the place comfortable in sub zero temperatures.

Also, if you get up at say 06:30, there's time to do a quick wash and/or dry at cheap rate, and fill a couple of hot water bottles with cheaply heated boiling water - stick them on your favorite chair and cover them with some cushions and they'll keep warm all day. Electric blankets are great - cheap and you always have a warm bed to get into however cold everything else gets.

Electric showers can be very expensive if you spend more than a few minutes in them.

Richie-from-the-Boro

To use them correctly (i.e. to get the most useful heat for cost) ensure the output is set to zero last thing at night. Turn it to maximum when you need more heat later in the following day. Operate the input depending on whether overall you're getting enough heat the next day (i.e. in the unlikely event the heater is still quite hot last thing at night, then turn the input down, but a more likely situation if the heater is old is that the input is set to maximum and it's cold last thing at night).

Still on this thread ...............

Sorry M8 again an intervention, that's against all / any good advice on E7 design requirements. Its your opinion and you are entitled to post it, but I will warn the O/P in this and every case of bad advice. That's not how E7 & 'Part L' requirements are designed to work, they've been around since 2005.

- all other parts of your post I agree with

NOTE : Part L of the new regulations looks very particularly at saving or conserving fuel and power & reducing heat loss.

fabbman

You have a fundamental issue with the lack of cavity insulation in the wall which is always going to result in a cold house! I remember it only too well through experience and never again!!

Have you checked the timeswitch on your storage heaters? They should be charging from 2300-0700 (mine used to) and charging at the Economy 7 tariff. I found the heaters ok, many people struggle to understand the concept of how they work but take some time to check the timeswitch and always leave the 'output' to 0 (there should be more than enough heat to 'radiate' through the panel)

Put all your effort into moving house, its miserable when you can't stay warm - it made me ill!

grahamc2003

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Still on this thread ...............

Sorry M8 again an intervention, that's against all / any good advice on E7 design requirements. Its your opinion and you are entitled to post it, but I will warn the O/P in this and every case of bad advice. That's not how E7 & 'Part L' requirements are designed to work, they've been around since 2005.

- all other parts of your post I agree with

NOTE : Part L of the new regulations looks very particularly at saving or conserving fuel and power & reducing heat loss.

And you too are welcome to your (obviously) incorrect opinion that one of the major steps forward in storage heater design (i.e. the effective control of output) should never be used and always left on zero.

Show me something in 'Part L' or anywhere else saying the output control should be left on zero all the time? I don't know why you always persist in this - isn't it perfectly obvious that they put a damper on (controlled via the output knob) so it should be used, and not so it shouldn't be used? Using it correctly (as I stated) means the room temperature profile is shifted a little from nighttime to daytime for the same cost.

(Also, this post isn't to 'stalk' you, as you stated the last time we had this very same exchange. It is to correct your obvious misunderstanding which, if the op follows your incorrect advice, will cause her to have a warmer room at night at the expense of a cooler room in the day for the very same cost).